See also: IRC log
<DanC> # ACTION: jjc [DONE] to correct the minutes from 21 March 2007 to get full list of attendees.
<DanC> ACTION: jjc [DONE] to correct the minutes from 21 March 2007 to get full list of attendees. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
<HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 21 March 2007 as a true record
<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0191/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html
<HarryH> RESOLVED: approved GRDDL WG Weekly -- 21 March 2007 as a true record
<HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 28 March 2007 as a true record
<DanC> ACTION: jjc to produce EARL for his implementation, and then sort out multiple test passing in his EARL. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
<HarryH> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 11 April 11:00-0500. scribe volunteer?
<DanC> RESOLVED: to approve http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0193/28-grddl-wg-minutes.html as ammended
<DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 11 April 11:00-0500, Chime to scribe
HarryH: What's the status on dealing with the two stragglers?
<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/39407/exclude
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39407/grddlexcl/
DanC: How long do we have to wait if they don't answer?
HarryH: I thought that extended to November.
<DanC> 25 Aug
DanC: That's a long time to wait.
HarryH: Keep on harassing
them?
... We gave it a good try, and they haven't been attending
meetings.
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to send another e-mail to Citigroup, Samsung, Ian Jacobs, and Steve over patent exclusions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
HarryH: Note, this means the deadline for last call comments has passed.
DanC: We now have an excuse if we want to ignore huge comments.
chimezie: Oracle has a forum for discussing community issues such as this.
DanC: What about the RDFa community?
<chimezie> Oracle semantic technology forum (lots of SPARQL/RDF/GRDDL?) conversation, they are responsive there: http://forums.oracle.com/forums/forum.jspa?forumID=269&start=0
HarryH: Had some discussion with Ben Adida about hGRDDL.
<chimezie> that's a weird phone effect
DanC: We are really on hold until we hear back from the RDFa working group.
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to SemWeb Deployment Group and ask for explicit comments or explicit "no comments" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]
<DanC> (looking at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/ ... )
FabienG: As far as I know, the Deployment Group is not closely tracking GRDDL.
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to ask that a GRDDL transformation for RDFa go in the issues list http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/open [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]
HarryH: What's the question here?
DanC: Are implementations correct
based on current spec?
... If this is going to be a technical change, then we may need
another last call.
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#spaces-in-rel
<DanC> (eek! http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests says it's a W3C working draft. pls take the WD icon off, Chime)
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/spaces-in-rel.html
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to revise "transformation" rule to be clear about spaces, multiple values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
DanC: Need to harass ERH to ensure that the comment is properly addressed.
jjc: The message was sent to him on the 30th of March.
<HarryH> ACTION: jjc [CONTINUES] to update Elliotte with the fact that the tests that address his concerns are in pending. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
chimezie: Stefano was happy with the possibility of adding text explaining how XSLT's media type could be used to indicate the output language.
<chimezie> [[[
<chimezie> The Working Group is considering what modifications to the specification
<chimezie> (if any) can further highlight/clarify this additional mechanism.
<chimezie> ]]]
<jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0079
<DanC> esp 6) clarifying use of turtle/N3
<DanC> good; that's already on my todo list
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#unknown-media-type
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/unknown-media-type.xsl
<jjc> " media-type="x-no-such-type/x-no-such-subtype"/
<DanC> I'm moderately inclined to withdraw Ian's action re http-header-links. or punt to lazyweb
DanC: Working on JJC's comments
<chimezie> ACTION: chimezie remove WD style from 'editors draft' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
<HarryH> ACTION: DanC to respond to Tony Hammond [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]
DanC: stuff I've recognized as a TODO goes into pink text
<DanC> 1.84 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm
<DanC> good: "This document is [not yet] a Working Group Note"
<HarryH> ACTION: FabienG (After publication on April 6th) to announce to semweb@w3.org and microformats community. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]
<jjc> note - friday is holiday in some countries, as is Monday
HarryH: ... discusses http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/0006.html
chimezie: Do we need a better example?
HarryH: The current example shows conversion, but isn't strongly motivating.
jjc, chimezie: Prefer indication example.
<chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0126.html
chimezie: Putting the "life and death" example into actual practice would raise a number of questions.
<HarryH> "Below is a somewhat contrived example"
<DanC> (I'm curious whether the examples in the primer are also in our test suite.)
<HarryH> But if it's not too contrived...let's do it.
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to wrap indication example in. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action11]
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/rdf-syntaxes.png
<jjc> Dan notes the continued question about Primer Last Call
DanC: Now that we have a diagram, the editor needs to think about incorporating it.
<DanC> (I don't need turtle to be ratified for it to be useful in a primer)
<DanC> (turtle is used in a number of semweb best practice notes)
<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH check the diagram in in Health Care example, where we first introduce turtle. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action12]
<DanC> Harry, is this done? ACTION: HarryH to check any primer fixes in, Murray and Jeremy to review once finished.
<DanC> and this? ACTION: HarryH to make sure library transforms are linked from Primer.
<HarryH> It's not done because of questions about OWL use-case.
<DanC> ok
<HarryH> So Continue it.
<DanC> ACTION: HarryH to check any primer fixes in, Murray and Jeremy to review once finished. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action13]
<HarryH> However, the guidance I got today should let me finish it next week.
<DanC> ACTION: HarryH to make sure library transforms are linked from Primer. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action14]
<DanC> ACTION: Chime to get Semantic Tech 2007 to use GRDDL+microformats for their calendar. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action15]
<DanC> harry, still interested to do ACTION: HarryH to contact WWW2007 over microformats+GRDDL for their calendar. ?
<HarryH> Wait a sec...now in lunch meeting :)
<HarryH> Yes, I am interested via WWW2007 tutorial.
<HarryH> However, might try to pass it off to BrianS since he seems to be 1) good at these things 2) have some spare cycles.
<HarryH> Just continue it and I'll e-mail BrianS about his schedule.
<DanC> ACTION: HarryH to contact WWW2007 over microformats+GRDDL for their calendar. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action16]
<DanC> jjc: one could make one profile for all microformats, or for all the ones that we have XSLT for
<DanC> DanC: yes, that just needs a maintainer to set/meet expectations.
<DanC> ACTION: BrianS to contact RyanKing about adding GRDDL profile for hCal/hCard to Javascripot microformat generator. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action17]
<DanC> I'd like to chat more with Brian about that
<DanC> ACTION: Chime to announce to semantic-web@w3.org that GRDDL Test Cases is a WD. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action18]
<DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Mar/0146.html
<DanC> ACTION: jjc to modify #loopx to relate to discussion about SHOULD [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action19]
<chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Mar/0146.html
jjc: Several tests need to be moved into the official manifests.
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#loopx
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#loopx (in editorial draft)
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#loopx
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#loopx
chimezie: URIs are becoming very difficult to manage.
DanC: example?
<chimezie> http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2007-04-04.html#T13-16-39
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#hcard1
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/#atomttl1
DanC: And what's the issue with those?
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#hcard1
<chimezie> #hcard1 is a 'networked' test, #attomttl1 is 'local' (and that's why its hardwired to the repository)
<jjc> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#atomttl1
<chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/ is the base for all the test material
<chimezie> (networked or otherwise)
chimezie: Using .../td/ leads one
to the editor's draft, not the official version.
... Just point to the official version from the .../td/
location?
jjc: aboutTests.xsl used to
output all relative URIs.
... Networked tests should be referenced with an "absolute"
URI.
<DanC> PROPOSED: that each test have a URI of the form http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#LOCALNAME ...
<HarryH> +1
<jjc> +1
<DanC> RESOLVED: that each test have a URI of the form http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#LOCALNAME
<DanC> . ACTION who: migrate testlist1,2,3 tests
jjc: Referenced from the web, all
the tests end up being networked tests, but when used locally,
some can be referenced using relative references with no
functional change.
... This is an implementation detail of producing the RDF
manifests from the HTML versions.
<jjc> The WG tests have input from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td and output from the same.
<jjc> Implementors may have local copies which they can access in a cache like mechanism
<jjc> The network tests are not suited for such a local cache due to various considerations
<jjc> However, the implementors use of a local cache is their decision, and not a topic for WG discussion or decision
chimezie: Batch approval for URI
aliasing should be easy to do.
... Sufficient to just put in text aliasing the text?
DanC: Just need to update the approval date.
<DanC> . ACTION chime: migrate testlist1,2,3, pending tests, noting previously approved tests
<DanC> ACTION: chime to migrate testlist1,2,3, pending tests, noting previously approved tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action20]
<DanC> (oops! 7 minutes over)
<DanC> jjc notes #loopx is overused
<DanC> ACTION: [DONE] jjc to manufacture .htaccess file for test cases using 301 "Moved Permanently" and e-mail Jean Gui [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action21]
<DanC> ACTION: Chime to fix the relative URL problem [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action22]
<DanC> ACTION: [DONE] jjc to edit library file to remove .xsls [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action23]
<DanC> ACTION: HarryH to run EARL-> HTML table generator [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action24]
<DanC> swapping in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results ...
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/earlsum.py has the old EARL namespace
DanC: When can we unleash testers
to generate EARL?
... Should wait until the dust settles from actions recorded
today
<DanC> ACTION: Chime to produce EARL to report about GRDDL.py [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action25]
<DanC> (I'm swapping in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/sched7 ... )
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0170.html
<DanC> (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/sched7 has the WG making a go-to-CR decision 11 Apr. looks unlikely. I'm inclined to mark sched7 obsolete, but somebody should notify the semweb cg, and I'm trying not to take actions except editing actions. Harry?)
<HarryH> I can notify SemWeb CG next time they meet...
<DanC> ACTION: HarryH to notify the semweb-cg that the GRDDL WG is unlikely to decide to go to CR by 11 Apr as earlier predicted. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action26]
<jjc> Purposes of tests is 1) provide WG with evidence to get to PR 2) provide implementors with evidence that they have implemented GRDDL
<jjc> If we have mechanisms to automate the rule that alternative tests are tests that have the same input, then these objectives may be easier
I believe my patch helps with this if you are using testft.py.
<jjc> However, the text above, is sufficient for 1) and 2) and so given time pressure, may be the right choice
As I've pointed out, you can also use arbitrary RDF tools to do this given the EARL output.
<DanC> ADJOURN.
