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SVG WG meeting minutes of 2012/03/29

From: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:48:03 -0700
To: SVG public list <www-svg@w3.org>, "public-fx@w3.org" <public-fx@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0BEEF53B-F77D-4FCC-9D53-0F934C9AAE1F@adobe.com>
Hi,

These are the meeting minutes of 2012/03/29: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-svg-minutes.html

Greetings,
Dirk

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

29 Mar 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0185.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
   Chair
          ed

   Scribe
          krit

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Finishing SVG 2 reuirements
         2. [6]SVG next phase
         3. [7]extract part of an SVG image by its id
         4. [8]next svg f2f meetings
         5. [9]SVG functionality in Canvas
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 29 March 2012

   <ed> and agenda+
   [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
   r/0187.html

     [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0187.html

   <cyril> +Present: Nikos

   <scribe> scribeNick: krit

Finishing SVG 2 reuirements

   <ed>
   [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
   r/0175.html

     [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0175.html

   cyril: I have an issue

   heycam: I have an action for the first item
   ... not done yet
   ... action number: 3251

   <ed> ACTION-3251

   ed: what about smil time containers?

   heycam: yes, let's take a look at that
   ... I am happy about brians efforts

   ed: any concerns?

   shepazu: I suspect MS might have concerns but they are not here

   heycam: I thing it is the full smil time container

   cyril: he doesn't want elements but attributes

   <cyril> +nikos

   <heycam>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Auckland_2011/An
   imation_improvements#Issue:_SMIL_is_greatly_complicated_by_sync
   base_timing

     [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Auckland_2011/Animation_improvements#Issue:_SMIL_is_greatly_complicated_by_syncbase_timing

   resolution: SVG 2.0 requirement: support SMIL time containers

   cyril: we want the feature of smil time containers, but not
   necessarily the element iteself

   heycam: "Consider adding a 'key()' keyword for animation
   triggers"
   ... You can just get a single character no a key. Not good
   defined

   cyril: don't think that this is an issue
   ... I discussed security issues with brian on accessKeys
   ... SVG integration of accessKeys might be modified to address
   security issues

   ed: we should come up with a proposal that adresses security
   issues

   resolution: SVG 2 requirement:Consider adding a 'key()' keyword
   for animation triggers and addressing security issues

   krit: timelineBegin attribute on <svg> element next?
   ... even for inner SVG elements?

   cyril: we should not speack about documents but time container
   ... we can start new time containers anywhere. We should talk
   about that after we have time container
   ... Oh, I think timlineBegin should only be on the document

   <cyril> see syncBehavior to control the timeline of a time
   container

   heycam: you might not want to wait for document load end to
   start animations

   krit: I think it should be part of the time container

   heycam: it might make sense to start animations on a time
   container before the content is fully loaded

   <cyril>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_In
   put#Run-time_Synchronization_attributes

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Run-time_Synchronization_attributes

   cyril: I think we already have a resolution.

   heycam: it was more about synchronizing media

   cyril: i don't think so
   ... e.g if you have video and audio that could differ from the
   timeline of the document
   ... I agree with the request, we should define whne the
   timeLine begins

   heycam: Well, I am fine with it

   resolution: SVG2 will support a means for having SMIL
   animations start before their time container has fully loaded

   heycam: The <discard> element

   ed: to throw away elements based on animations. Good for big
   files on streaming

   cyril: use case is still valid
   ... there might be issues on scripting the <discard> elements
   ... we should fix that
   ... have you implemented it?

   ed: yes, opera implements the <discard> element

   heycam: brian seems not to be opposed to it

   ed: can we resolve requirements?

   resolution: SVG 2 will have <discard> element to declaratively
   discard elements from the document tree

   cyril: The 'playbackOrder' attribute on the<svg> element next

   <cyril> If 'playbackOrder' is set to 'forwardOnly', the content
   will probably contain 'discard' elements or scripts that
   destroy resources, thus seeking back in the document's timeline
   may result in missing content.

   heycam: more important for the UI controls

   <cyril> Similarly the UA should disable any controls it may
   provide in the user interface for seeking backwards.

   <cyril>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementPlayba
   ckOrderAttribute

     [15] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementPlaybackOrderAttribute

   ed: not sure ahow important the attribute is
   ... a lot of shoulds and mays

   cyril: should you revert the elements?
   ... we could use plabackOrder also with scripts

   heycam: it might be useful if UIs have some build in controls
   ... does flash have it?
   ... you didn't implement this attribute yet?

   cyril: no

   ed: no, Opera either
   ... might only be useful for UIs
   ... not sure if the wording is so great either

   <cyril> resolution: SVG 2 should support the playbackOrder
   attribute to inform UA to not display controls to seek
   backwards

   ed: we have all the things

SVG next phase

   <ed>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
   mmitments

     [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments

   krit: At adobe we will most likely specialise on glyphs and
   fonts, discussion is still going on

   ed: I don't want to sign up for to many at this point
   ... I might sing up for a couple more

   cyril: I haven't discussed it yet with colleagues

   heycam: I have a bunch of them
   ... most of them will be align with html5

   <cyril>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page#M
   ilestones

     [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page#Milestones

   cyril: We should do as much as possible till april to publish
   first WD till July
   ... And then make a second round for missing requirments

   heycam: july is the first step
   ... and then straight to last call in january

   shepazu: We should have as much as possible but should go out
   with what we have
   ... the first WD should have the new things in it
   ... we focus on the new stuff
   ... people are more interessted in the new stuff than what SVG
   1.1 has

   <cyril> I think we need to do 3 things: freeze the commitments,
   start editing the spec to add the annotations for this first
   set of reqs and then start receiving proposals

   <cyril> and evaluating them

   resolution: Commitments on SVG parts we want to work on will be
   frozen by next week

extract part of an SVG image by its id

   shepazu: I send an email with the conversation that I have with
   fantasai
   ... you all have read
   ... media fragment spec let you point to different parts of
   document you want

   <ed>
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
   r/0189.html has some examples I cooked up, using ids for
   selecting parts of an svg "spritemap"

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0189.html

   shepazu: think about a use element can point to an element in
   SVG and just wants to show this one
   ... an CSS image would access that
   ... we had one use case in SVG for navigation
   ... fantasai proposes what a fragment is in SVG 2 and what to
   do when the UA points to that

   <TabAtkins> Fantasai's point that SVG just needs to define what
   a hash *represents* is sufficient. We can take over from there.
   But defining it as representing "navigate/scale/whatever the
   viewport" isn't useful.

   shepazu: what is the navigation behavior

   <TabAtkins> And then you can say that the default behavior is
   to navigate to the referenced element.

   <ed>
   [19]http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#ch
   art

     [19] http://dahlstr/

   <ed>
   [20]http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#pl
   us

     [20] http://dahlstr/

   ed: it should work in FF as well

   <ed> it works in all browsers

   heycam: one use viewBox on the target and two hide the other
   ones

   <shepazu> [21]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/sprites.svg

     [21] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/sprites.svg

   heycam: most document just gone have a part of an image with an
   ID. There won't be an viewBox arround it

   ed: what eric did works fin here.

   <heycam> would like to know how this relates to <view> --
   <view> is kind of indirect, so this would provide the
   same/similar functionality but be simpler?

   <cyril> and #svgView()

   <TabAtkins> woo

   shepazu: if we get auhtoring tools to support this than we are
   fine

   <ed>
   [22]http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon.svg#chart

     [22] http://dahlstr/

   <ed> this alternative uses <view> elements to define the
   viewboxes

   heycam: you have to define a viewBox

   <ed> ... and lacks the display:none things, which could be
   added of course, similarly to
   [23]http://dahlström.net/tmp/sharp-icons/svg-icon-target.svg#ch
   art

     [23] http://dahlstr/

   shepazu: currentyl the SVG 1.1 says that its simple goes to
   view port of the SVG anchetor of this elements
   ... you just have the svg root

   krit: I saw eriks solution some times, mostly for zooming

   shepazu: eirks solution is a good interim solution

   cyril: just want to confirm the next F2F meetings

   <ed> Seattle, USA, 25-27 July, 2012

   cyril: what is the next one?
   ... TPAC, SVG open?

next svg f2f meetings

   shepazu: this is the last SVG Open
   ... would be good to have on f2f at SVG open

   cyril: can you attend to TPAC and SVG open?

   Tav: figure it out

SVG functionality in Canvas

   krit: I was surprised about the SVG path stuff in Canvas

   heycam: I think he wants to make sure that path or matrix work
   well or at least similar as the SVG one

   shepazu: hixie asked SVG WG to review it before he lands stuff
   ... but now he published it
   ... I think we should review what is there and send coments

   <heycam>
   [24]http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-Ma
   rch/035239.html

     [24] http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-March/035239.html

   shepazu: I suggest to mail the comments to the canvas mailing
   list, svg mailing list and hixie

   <TabAtkins> Yes, please. "Publishing" does not in any way imply
   it's frozen (until implementations emerge).

   The SVG stuff in Canvas so far:
   [25]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage
   /the-canvas-element.html#path-objects

     [25] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#path-objects

   shepazu: SVG WG should be involved in how SVG error handling
   works

   heycam: I will review it

   shepazu: thats enought for now
   ... can we start with these topics on next meeting minutes?

   <cyril>
   [26]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage
   /the-canvas-element.html#hit-regions

     [26] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#hit-regions

   shepazu: next f2f over emails and telcom times on next meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [27]scribe.perl version
    1.136 ( [28]CVS log)
    $Date: 2012/03/29 21:44:39 $
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     [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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     [29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Succeeded: s/yes, think so/yes, opera implements the <discard> element/
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Succeeded: s/<discard> elements to discard/<discard> element to declara
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Found ScribeNick: krit
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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Doug_Schepers IPcaller P0 P5 TabAtkins Tav cyril ed h
eycam joined krit nikos scribeNick shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda:
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0185.h
tml
Found Date: 29 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL:
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-svg-minutes.html
People with action items:

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0185.html
     [31] http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-svg-minutes.html

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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