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Re: French translation of SKOS Reference available

From: Stella Dextre Clarke <stella@lukehouse.org>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 08:51:25 +0000
Message-ID: <526F770D.7040703@lukehouse.org>
To: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>, SKOS <public-esw-thes@w3.org>, Johan De Smedt <johan.de-smedt@tenforce.com>
CC: Sylvie <sylvieatd@aol.com>
Dear Colleagues,
In response to the queries raised about translation of thesaurus terms, 
Sylvie Dalbin has contributed the following advice:
>
>> A White Paper about  ISO 25964's standard and published in early 2013 
>> by Afnor, uses "relais virtuel" for "node label". This term refers to 
>> the function (as a virtual switch). This is the term used for 50 
>> years in particular in the French version of ISO 2788:1986  (and 
>> chooses in this white paper). More recently, we also find " étiquette 
>> de noeud".
>> I find "relais virtuel" very colorful (? full of imagery).  It also 
>> helps in the process of understanding the role of this node.
>>
>> This white paper includes a bilingual glossary of relevant terms
>>
>> The (French) White Paper -  pdf or odt.
>> http://dossierdoc.typepad.com/descripteurs/2013/01/iso-25964-1-livre-blanc-2013.html 
>>
>>
>
Sylvie is well positioned to advise, since she is active in thesaurus 
development and worked very hard as the representative of AFNOR on the 
Working Group which developed the thesaurus standard. I hope her input 
will help with continuing evolution of the guidance around SKOS.
Stella Dextre Clarke

*****************************************************
Stella Dextre Clarke
Information Consultant and Chair, ISKO UK
Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
Tel: 01235-833-298
Fax: 01235-863-298
stella@lukehouse.org
*****************************************************



On 17/10/2013 17:00, Antoine Isaac wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> OK!
> I won't push further on the discussion on those points. After all 
> we're not translating something as technical as the RDF Spec here, the 
> translator shall be given his freedom of interpretation :-)
> And I've just realized that 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/fr has 
> "schéma de concepts" for ConceptScheme anyway...
>
> The only tricky point remains 'node labels'. Again if there's no 
> feedback on the list, you should keep to your prefered choice!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Antoine
>
>
>>
>> Dear Antoine
>>
>> Thank you very much for your detailled feedback, answers below.
>>
>>
>>
>>     =========
>>
>>     Compatibilité can be replaced by "cohérence", in line with the 
>> logical notion. Consistency is really 
>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29 
>> <http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29>.
>>
>>
>> Thank you. I was lacking the correct english/french logical 
>> vocabulary here, I am glad to find someone that can point me to a 
>> definition. So I have replaced with "cohérence".
>>
>>
>>     To me, "schémas" blurs the distinction between schemes and 
>> schemas in English. Not sure I get this one entirely, but at least 
>> I'd say that "scheme" can have a more informal meaning than 
>> "schemas". In our context I'd liken schema to "metadata schema" (à la 
>> Dublin Core) or "database schema".
>>     I note that in a couple of places you have used "Schémes de 
>> Concepts"
>>
>>
>> The typo on "Schémes de Concepts" is fixed.
>> To be honest in French "schéma de concepts" sounds horrible (I think) 
>> but at least is close to the English word and to the URI, so people 
>> can easily relate these; a more appropriate french label could be 
>> "Structure de Concepts" or "Arrangement de Concepts".
>>
>>
>>     I'd translate "range" by "codomaine" rather than "portée".
>>
>>
>> I find "codomaine" really too mathematical for people reading the 
>> spec, but I agree than "portée" was not a good choice. I have 
>> replaced it with "ensemble d'arrivée" that seems less opaque for 
>> someone without a logical/mathematical background.
>>
>>     "Node labels (note du traducteur : sans doute la notion de 
>> "facettes")"
>>     -> I'm quite sure it's not facettes, but I'm not 100% sure what 
>> it could be. In an old translation Bernard has used "étiquettes"
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-__swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/__fr 
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/fr>
>>
>>
>> I think "étiquettes" stands for "labels" only. Here the spec talks 
>> about skos:Collection that can be used to "provide support for node 
>> labels within thesauri"; anyone knows what "node labels" are in this 
>> context ?
>>
>>     Status de ce Document: Status?
>>
>>
>>     Schémas de Concept -> Schémas de Concepts (in Table of Contents 
>> and a couple of other places)
>>
>>     "SKOS Overview" was ketp in English (only in table of contents)
>>
>>     Préférrés->Préférés
>>
>>
>>     Types de Donnée -> Types de Données
>>
>>     Définitions des Classes & et des Propriétés
>>
>>
>> all the above are fixed.
>>
>>
>>     les thesaurus -> les thesauri (in accordance to choices made in 
>> other parts of the doc)
>>
>>
>> Well, I have checked, and "thésaurus" is actually the correct French 
>> plural ("thesauri" doesn't exist in French). So I have put 
>> "thésaurus" everywhere to be consistent.
>>
>>     ambigüe -> ambiguë
>>
>>
>> fixed
>>
>> Cheers
>> Thomas
>>
>>     =========
>>
>>         (French version see below)
>>
>>         Dear all
>>
>>         I am pleased to share with you the French translation of the 
>> SKOS recommendation : 
>> http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__traduction-francais.html 
>> <http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-traduction-francais.html>
>>         See also the completed translation announcement : 
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/w3c-translators/__2013OctDec/0004.html 
>> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2013OctDec/0004.html> 
>>
>>
>>         Comments on the translation are most welcome.
>>         Best
>>         Thomas
>>
>>         ~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>         Bonjour
>>
>>         J'ai le plaisir de vous annoncer la traduction française de 
>> la recommandation SKOS : 
>> http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__traduction-francais.html 
>> <http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-traduction-francais.html>
>>         Voir également l'annonce de la réalisation de la traduction : 
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/w3c-translators/__2013OctDec/0004.html 
>> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2013OctDec/0004.html> 
>>
>>
>>         Tous les commentaires sur cette traduction seront les bienvenus;
>>         en espérant qu'elle puisse favoriser l'utilisation de SKOS.
>>
>>         Bien à vous
>>         Thomas
>>
>>         --
>>         *
>>         *
>>         *Thomas Francart* - Sparna
>>
>>         Consultant Indépendant
>>         Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
>>         web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
>>         Tel : +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97 <tel:%2B33%20%280%296.71.11.25.97>
>>         Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14 <tel:%2B33%20%280%299.58.16.17.14>
>>         Skype : francartthomas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> *
>> *
>> *Thomas Francart* - Sparna
>> Consultant Indépendant
>> Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
>> web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
>> Tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97
>> Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14
>> Skype : francartthomas
>
>


-- 
*****************************************************
Stella Dextre Clarke
Information Consultant and Chair, ISKO UK
Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
Tel: 01235-833-298
Fax: 01235-863-298
stella@lukehouse.org
*****************************************************
Received on Tuesday, 29 October 2013 08:51:56 UTC

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