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Re: French translation of SKOS Reference available

From: Thomas Francart <thomas.francart@sparna.fr>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 22:50:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPugn7Xghs3pT8ZYO24SS8CuGGHi+mV5YA860NpwRTVFLu5OWg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stella Dextre Clarke <stella@lukehouse.org>
Cc: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>, SKOS <public-esw-thes@w3.org>, Johan De Smedt <johan.de-smedt@tenforce.com>, Sylvie <sylvieatd@aol.com>
Thank you Stella, I think "relais virtuel" makes sense in the context of
this sentence and will be understood by french speakers familiar with
thesaurus. I have updated the translation accordingly (and I am in touch
with Sylvie).

Cheers
Thomas


2013/10/29 Stella Dextre Clarke <stella@lukehouse.org>

> Dear Colleagues,
> In response to the queries raised about translation of thesaurus terms,
> Sylvie Dalbin has contributed the following advice:
>
>>
>>  A White Paper about  ISO 25964's standard and published in early 2013 by
>>> Afnor, uses "relais virtuel" for "node label". This term refers to the
>>> function (as a virtual switch). This is the term used for 50 years in
>>> particular in the French version of ISO 2788:1986  (and chooses in this
>>> white paper). More recently, we also find " étiquette de noeud".
>>> I find "relais virtuel" very colorful (? full of imagery).  It also
>>> helps in the process of understanding the role of this node.
>>>
>>> This white paper includes a bilingual glossary of relevant terms
>>>
>>> The (French) White Paper -  pdf or odt.
>>> http://dossierdoc.typepad.com/**descripteurs/2013/01/iso-**
>>> 25964-1-livre-blanc-2013.html<http://dossierdoc.typepad.com/descripteurs/2013/01/iso-25964-1-livre-blanc-2013.html>
>>>
>>>
>>  Sylvie is well positioned to advise, since she is active in thesaurus
> development and worked very hard as the representative of AFNOR on the
> Working Group which developed the thesaurus standard. I hope her input will
> help with continuing evolution of the guidance around SKOS.
> Stella Dextre Clarke
>
> *******************************************************
> Stella Dextre Clarke
> Information Consultant and Chair, ISKO UK
> Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
> Tel: 01235-833-298
> Fax: 01235-863-298
> stella@lukehouse.org
> *******************************************************
>
>
>
>
> On 17/10/2013 17:00, Antoine Isaac wrote:
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> OK!
>> I won't push further on the discussion on those points. After all we're
>> not translating something as technical as the RDF Spec here, the translator
>> shall be given his freedom of interpretation :-)
>> And I've just realized that http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-**
>> swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/**fr<http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/fr>has "schéma de concepts" for ConceptScheme anyway...
>>
>> The only tricky point remains 'node labels'. Again if there's no feedback
>> on the list, you should keep to your prefered choice!
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dear Antoine
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your detailled feedback, answers below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     =========
>>>
>>>     Compatibilité can be replaced by "cohérence", in line with the
>>> logical notion. Consistency is really http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/_**
>>> _Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29><
>>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coh%C3%A9rence_%28logique%29>
>>> >.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you. I was lacking the correct english/french logical vocabulary
>>> here, I am glad to find someone that can point me to a definition. So I
>>> have replaced with "cohérence".
>>>
>>>
>>>     To me, "schémas" blurs the distinction between schemes and schemas
>>> in English. Not sure I get this one entirely, but at least I'd say that
>>> "scheme" can have a more informal meaning than "schemas". In our context
>>> I'd liken schema to "metadata schema" (à la Dublin Core) or "database
>>> schema".
>>>     I note that in a couple of places you have used "Schémes de Concepts"
>>>
>>>
>>> The typo on "Schémes de Concepts" is fixed.
>>> To be honest in French "schéma de concepts" sounds horrible (I think)
>>> but at least is close to the English word and to the URI, so people can
>>> easily relate these; a more appropriate french label could be "Structure de
>>> Concepts" or "Arrangement de Concepts".
>>>
>>>
>>>     I'd translate "range" by "codomaine" rather than "portée".
>>>
>>>
>>> I find "codomaine" really too mathematical for people reading the spec,
>>> but I agree than "portée" was not a good choice. I have replaced it with
>>> "ensemble d'arrivée" that seems less opaque for someone without a
>>> logical/mathematical background.
>>>
>>>     "Node labels (note du traducteur : sans doute la notion de
>>> "facettes")"
>>>     -> I'm quite sure it's not facettes, but I'm not 100% sure what it
>>> could be. In an old translation Bernard has used "étiquettes"
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-_**_swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/**__fr<http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-__swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/__fr><
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-**swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/**fr<http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-swbp-skos-core-spec-20051102/fr>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> I think "étiquettes" stands for "labels" only. Here the spec talks about
>>> skos:Collection that can be used to "provide support for node labels within
>>> thesauri"; anyone knows what "node labels" are in this context ?
>>>
>>>     Status de ce Document: Status?
>>>
>>>
>>>     Schémas de Concept -> Schémas de Concepts (in Table of Contents and
>>> a couple of other places)
>>>
>>>     "SKOS Overview" was ketp in English (only in table of contents)
>>>
>>>     Préférrés->Préférés
>>>
>>>
>>>     Types de Donnée -> Types de Données
>>>
>>>     Définitions des Classes & et des Propriétés
>>>
>>>
>>> all the above are fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>     les thesaurus -> les thesauri (in accordance to choices made in
>>> other parts of the doc)
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I have checked, and "thésaurus" is actually the correct French
>>> plural ("thesauri" doesn't exist in French). So I have put "thésaurus"
>>> everywhere to be consistent.
>>>
>>>     ambigüe -> ambiguë
>>>
>>>
>>> fixed
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>     =========
>>>
>>>         (French version see below)
>>>
>>>         Dear all
>>>
>>>         I am pleased to share with you the French translation of the
>>> SKOS recommendation : http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__**
>>> traduction-francais.html<http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__traduction-francais.html><
>>> http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-**traduction-francais.html<http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-traduction-francais.html>
>>> >
>>>         See also the completed translation announcement :
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/_**_Public/w3c-translators/__**
>>> 2013OctDec/0004.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/w3c-translators/__2013OctDec/0004.html><
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/w3c-translators/**
>>> 2013OctDec/0004.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2013OctDec/0004.html>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Comments on the translation are most welcome.
>>>         Best
>>>         Thomas
>>>
>>>         ~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>         Bonjour
>>>
>>>         J'ai le plaisir de vous annoncer la traduction française de la
>>> recommandation SKOS : http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__**
>>> traduction-francais.html<http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-__traduction-francais.html><
>>> http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-**traduction-francais.html<http://sparna.fr/skos/SKOS-traduction-francais.html>
>>> >
>>>         Voir également l'annonce de la réalisation de la traduction :
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/_**_Public/w3c-translators/__**
>>> 2013OctDec/0004.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/w3c-translators/__2013OctDec/0004.html><
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/w3c-translators/**
>>> 2013OctDec/0004.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2013OctDec/0004.html>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Tous les commentaires sur cette traduction seront les bienvenus;
>>>         en espérant qu'elle puisse favoriser l'utilisation de SKOS.
>>>
>>>         Bien à vous
>>>         Thomas
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         *
>>>         *
>>>         *Thomas Francart* - Sparna
>>>
>>>         Consultant Indépendant
>>>         Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
>>>         web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
>>>         Tel : +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97 <tel:%2B33%20%280%296.71.11.**25.97>
>>>         Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14 <tel:%2B33%20%280%299.58.16.**17.14>
>>>         Skype : francartthomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *Thomas Francart* - Sparna
>>> Consultant Indépendant
>>> Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
>>> web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
>>> Tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97
>>> Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14
>>> Skype : francartthomas
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> *******************************************************
> Stella Dextre Clarke
> Information Consultant and Chair, ISKO UK
> Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
> Tel: 01235-833-298
> Fax: 01235-863-298
> stella@lukehouse.org
> *******************************************************
>
>
>


-- 
*
*
*Thomas Francart* - Sparna
Consultant Indépendant
Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
Tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97
Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14
Skype : francartthomas
Received on Tuesday, 29 October 2013 21:51:42 UTC

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