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Re: Unicity of skos (and skos-xl) prefLabel in one language : gender issues

From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 23:40:13 +0200
Message-ID: <BANLkTim5zLu2gxq-r8qsAAVR4oBA4NZxmg@mail.gmail.com>
To: SKOS <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Hello all

Thanks for all wise suggestions, none being acceptable under OPOCE
requirements I'm afraid :)

A bit more context. Among authorities that will be eventually published are
languages.
And the URIs of those language authorities will be used to assert the
language of terms, instead of xml:lang attributes.

So far we have for example (with implicit nationality concept skipped)

at:country/GRC  a skos:Concept
at:country/GRC  at:nationalityLabel  at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec'
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/M
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

The explicit description of the label with literal form, language and
optional grammatical gender, number and script will be mandatory for all
terms used in OPOCE authorities publication. The language is not defined by
a fancy xml:lang value, but a value in the language authority table. So
"masculine french" language will not work.

Thinking twice about it, seems to me now we should use a concept-to-label
relationship more generic than the pref/alt distinction which is definitely
non applicable here. This is basically what
http://lexvo.org/ontology#labelprovides :
"This property is more general than skosxl:prefLabel and skosxl:altLabel, as
it does not make any normative claims about which labels are preferred. It
merely describes the fact that a certain label can be used to refer to
something."
In fact I wish we had such a property in skos-xl ...

So my best proposal is as today

at:nationality  rdfs:subPropertyOf   skos:related

at:country/GRC  a skos:Concept
at:country/GRC-nat  a  skos:Concept
at:country/GRC  at:nationality  at:country/GRC-nat

at:country/GRC-nat   lvont:label   at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  a   skos-xl:Label

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec'
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/M
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

Bernard


2011/4/12 Houghton,Andrew <houghtoa@oclc.org>

> There is another option. Use an extended language code. I think, according
> to BCP 47, that this is legal:
>
> fr-fr-x-m  = masculine
> fr-fr-x-f  = feminine
>
> thus one could now have two skos:prefLabel for the different terms without
> breaking the unique term
> constraint in the standard.
>
>
> Andy.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org [mailto:public-esw-thes-
> > request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Antoine Isaac
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 05:58
> > To: SKOS
> > Subject: Re: Unicity of skos (and skos-xl) prefLabel in one language :
> > gender issues
> >
> > SKOS-XL indeed allows to define the context of usage of a label.
> > But it can't help solving the issue of finding a preferred label, when
> > obviously the language considered refuses to express a preference!
> > Seems to me like Bernard's case would lead to the representation of
> > both "grec" and "greque" as skos:altLabels. With or without
> > skos:prefLabel, depending on whether he'd be willing to accept a trick
> > such as Richard's.
> >
> > Antoine
> >
> >
> > > Question is: in the context where you will be using the prefLabel,
> > will you know the gender?
> > > Probably not more than in the SKOS vocabulary itself.
> > > So your challenge is therefore to write a politically correct form
> > for the vocabulary lists, menus, index views, etc.
> > >
> > > Then "grec(que)", "français(e)", "saoudien(ne)" or so should be OK,
> > isn't it?
> > >
> > > This to separate the main SKOS usage (choosing/getting a concept in
> > "catalogues" of any type)
> > > and the other uses (like terminology management)
> > > where additional properties, with precise grammatical features added,
> > are needed.
> > > I would had thought the SKOS-XL was enabling to define the "usage
> > context" of a term
> > > (or at least that additional properties on the reified term could be
> > used).
> > >
> > > Le 12/04/2011 11:00, Richard Light a écrit :
> > >> In message <BANLkTikFVM5RHhaNZ7kP54C-EeVfsRtz8Q@mail.gmail.com>,
> > Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com> writes
> > >>> Hello
> > >>>
> > >>> Currently working on migration of OPOCE authority tables to SKOS
> > >>> (countries, languages, currencies etc) I stumble on the following
> > issue :
> > >>> A country (say : Greece) has terms denoting its nationality
> > (Greek). If we
> > >>> want to represent the nationality as a skos:Concept, in some
> > languages
> > >>> which have different forms for different genders, which one is to
> > be chosen
> > >>> as the unique prefLabel in French : "grec" (M) or "grecque" (F)?
> > Either
> > >>> choice is politically incorrect :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Note that in this case we will use skos-xl to in order to capture
> > the
> > >>> "gender" property. But the issue is the same in skos or skos-xl.
> > >>>
> > >>> So far I've used a workaround by attaching directly the nationality
> > labels to
> > >>> the country concept using an ad hoc "nationalityLabel" property,
> > but it's
> > >>> only a workaround in the sense that I skip the issue by not
> > representing
> > >>> explicitly the nationality as a Concept.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thoughts?
> > >>
> > >> How about e.g. "grec/grecque" as the prefLabel?
> > >>
> > >> Richard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:       +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail:     bernard.vatant@mondeca.com
----------------------------------------------------
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3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:    http://www.mondeca.com
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Received on Tuesday, 12 April 2011 21:47:05 GMT

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