W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-esw-thes@w3.org > April 2011

RE: Unicity of skos (and skos-xl) prefLabel in one language : gender issues

From: Johan De Smedt <johan.de-smedt@tenforce.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:40:04 +0200
To: "'Bernard Vatant'" <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>, "'SKOS'" <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <4db5dc12.cac3e30a.5b3e.0e81@mx.google.com>
Hi Bernard,

 

We may except that some languages use gender.

A possible alternative to your suggestion could be:

 

- provide a pref-label used in politically correct texts

 (examples suggested by Richard and Antoine)

- make a sub property of xl:altLabel (or skos:altLabel) for (like in this case preferred gender
specific names)

  at:nationalityLabelFemale  rdfs:subPropertyOf  xl:altLabel

  at:nationalityLabelMale  rdfs:subPropertyOf  xl:altLabel

 

This then could lead to:

at:country/GRC  at:nationalityLabel  at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec/grecque'

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

at:country/GRC  at: nationalityLabelFemale at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-f

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-f  skos-xl:literalForm  'grecque'

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-f  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/F

at:country/GRC  at: nationalityLabelMale at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-m

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-m  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec'

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-m  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/M

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F-m  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

 

One could imagine the relation between the common (or neutral) nationality label

ant the gender specific nationality labels to be rule based (as in the example) or to be set
editorially.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Johan De Smedt 

Chief Technology Officer

 

mail:  <mailto:johan.de-smedt@tenforce.com> johan.de-smedt@tenforce.com

mobile: +32 477 475934

home page:  <http://www.tenforce.com/> http://www.tenforce.com

 

mail-TenForce

 

From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Bernard
Vatant
Sent: Tuesday, 12 April, 2011 23:40
To: SKOS
Subject: Re: Unicity of skos (and skos-xl) prefLabel in one language : gender issues

 

Hello all

Thanks for all wise suggestions, none being acceptable under OPOCE requirements I'm afraid :)

A bit more context. Among authorities that will be eventually published are languages.
And the URIs of those language authorities will be used to assert the language of terms, instead of
xml:lang attributes.

So far we have for example (with implicit nationality concept skipped)

at:country/GRC  a skos:Concept
at:country/GRC  at:nationalityLabel  at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec'
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/M
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

The explicit description of the label with literal form, language and optional grammatical gender,
number and script will be mandatory for all terms used in OPOCE authorities publication. The
language is not defined by a fancy xml:lang value, but a value in the language authority table. So
"masculine french" language will not work.

Thinking twice about it, seems to me now we should use a concept-to-label relationship more generic
than the pref/alt distinction which is definitely non applicable here. This is basically what
http://lexvo.org/ontology#label provides :
"This property is more general than skosxl:prefLabel and skosxl:altLabel, as it does not make any
normative claims about which labels are preferred. It merely describes the fact that a certain label
can be used to refer to something."
In fact I wish we had such a property in skos-xl ... 

So my best proposal is as today

at:nationality  rdfs:subPropertyOf   skos:related

at:country/GRC  a skos:Concept
at:country/GRC-nat  a  skos:Concept
at:country/GRC  at:nationality  at:country/GRC-nat

at:country/GRC-nat   lvont:label   at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  a   skos-xl:Label

at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  skos-xl:literalForm  'grec'
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  at:gender.grammar  at:gender/M
at:country/GRC-nat-fra-F  dcterms:language    at:language/FRA

Bernard



2011/4/12 Houghton,Andrew <houghtoa@oclc.org>

There is another option. Use an extended language code. I think, according to BCP 47, that this is
legal:

fr-fr-x-m  = masculine
fr-fr-x-f  = feminine

thus one could now have two skos:prefLabel for the different terms without breaking the unique term
constraint in the standard.


Andy.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org [mailto:public-esw-thes-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Antoine Isaac
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 05:58
> To: SKOS
> Subject: Re: Unicity of skos (and skos-xl) prefLabel in one language :
> gender issues
>

> SKOS-XL indeed allows to define the context of usage of a label.
> But it can't help solving the issue of finding a preferred label, when
> obviously the language considered refuses to express a preference!
> Seems to me like Bernard's case would lead to the representation of
> both "grec" and "greque" as skos:altLabels. With or without
> skos:prefLabel, depending on whether he'd be willing to accept a trick
> such as Richard's.
>
> Antoine
>
>
> > Question is: in the context where you will be using the prefLabel,
> will you know the gender?
> > Probably not more than in the SKOS vocabulary itself.
> > So your challenge is therefore to write a politically correct form
> for the vocabulary lists, menus, index views, etc.
> >
> > Then "grec(que)", "français(e)", "saoudien(ne)" or so should be OK,
> isn't it?
> >
> > This to separate the main SKOS usage (choosing/getting a concept in
> "catalogues" of any type)
> > and the other uses (like terminology management)
> > where additional properties, with precise grammatical features added,
> are needed.
> > I would had thought the SKOS-XL was enabling to define the "usage
> context" of a term
> > (or at least that additional properties on the reified term could be
> used).
> >
> > Le 12/04/2011 11:00, Richard Light a écrit :
> >> In message <BANLkTikFVM5RHhaNZ7kP54C-EeVfsRtz8Q@mail.gmail.com>,
> Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com> writes
> >>> Hello
> >>>
> >>> Currently working on migration of OPOCE authority tables to SKOS
> >>> (countries, languages, currencies etc) I stumble on the following
> issue :
> >>> A country (say : Greece) has terms denoting its nationality
> (Greek). If we
> >>> want to represent the nationality as a skos:Concept, in some
> languages
> >>> which have different forms for different genders, which one is to
> be chosen
> >>> as the unique prefLabel in French : "grec" (M) or "grecque" (F)?
> Either
> >>> choice is politically incorrect :)
> >>>
> >>> Note that in this case we will use skos-xl to in order to capture
> the
> >>> "gender" property. But the issue is the same in skos or skos-xl.
> >>>
> >>> So far I've used a workaround by attaching directly the nationality
> labels to
> >>> the country concept using an ad hoc "nationalityLabel" property,
> but it's
> >>> only a workaround in the sense that I skip the issue by not
> representing
> >>> explicitly the nationality as a Concept.
> >>>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> How about e.g. "grec/grecque" as the prefLabel?
> >>
> >> Richard
> >
> >
> >
>
>







-- 
Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Vocabulary & Data Integration
Tel:       +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail:     bernard.vatant@mondeca.com
----------------------------------------------------
Mondeca
3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:    http://www.mondeca.com
Blog:    http://mondeca.wordpress.com
----------------------------------------------------





image001.jpg
(image/jpeg attachment: image001.jpg)

Received on Monday, 25 April 2011 20:40:18 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 25 April 2011 20:40:19 GMT