W3C

Device APIs Working Group Teleconference

12 Dec 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Frederick_Hirsch, Mats_Wichmann, Anssi_Kostiainen, Cathy_Chan, Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Giri_Mandyam
Regrets
Josh_Soref
Chair
Frederick_Hirsch
Scribe
fjh

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 12 December 2013

<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh

Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements

Welcome new members, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0023.html

fjh: new member Ningxin interested in Media Capture , http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0025.html

anssik: yes he is interested in media capture and streams

fjh: will need to check on call schedule

dom: should point him to media capture task force list

fjh: i did this in the welcome message
... will send another message
... Call scheduled for next week 19 December; no teleconferences 26 Dec or 2 Jan, see http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes.html#upcoming-teleconferences

Minutes approval

Approve minutes from 21 November 2013

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Nov/att-0030/minutes-2013-11-21.html

RESOLUTION: Minutes from 21 November 2013 are approved

Network Service Discovery

fjh: Overview (with Rich) for Privacy Interest Group (PING) scheduled at next PING teleconference, 30 January 2014 9 am PT/noon ET, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2013OctDec/0036.html
... we will start with overview to PING . They will review after the call.

cathy: will need to give regrets for the PING call due to vacation

fjh: WebAppSec call to be scheduled, http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/
... not sure we can do more on this topic until we have list discussion and/or call participation

cathy: agree

Editor Updates

ACTION-671?

<trackbot> ACTION-671 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Prepare shelved note publications after tpac http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-device-apis/2013nov/0010.html -- due 2013-11-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/671

fjh: Publishing Moratorium: 8 December 2013 through 1 January 2014, see wiki http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/Main_Page#Administrativia
... would be good to prepare documents in advance, assuming you have work time, could plan to publish 9 January

anssik: this works, I can prepare the documents

Network Information API

Please continue discussion on list!

Chrome Apps discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0005.html

Mozilla discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0003.html

Abstraction proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0007.html (Anssi)

Adaptor proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0009.html (Josh)

Use Cases https://github.com/w3c-webmob/netinfo/ (Marcos)

Getting the correct problem statement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Dec/0017.html (Tobie)

<dom> Use case and requirements for network information

fjh: suggest looking at these various items, especially use cases and Tobie's message

dom: work marcos is doing is useful related to use cases

fjh: this is a fyi, please take a look and contribute on the list

anssi: agree to need for use cases
... lots of discussion
... webmob provides good use cases

fjh: discussion goes off in various directions

anssi: need stability over time, so if we say wifi now, maybe something different in the future
... my abstracting proposal offers future-proofing, but a tradeoff

gmandyman: need to remember hardware dependencies, e.g. a good bandwidth estimate cannot come out of the browser?
... stuff like Tobie talks about, batching and so on, are already addressed in mobile
... even with use cases need to consider target hardware platform, need to know which optimizations are possible

fjh: need to understand system and context, hard with privacy or optimizations to write specs in isolation for modules without considering integration into system

gmandyam: not always browser you are integrating into

fjh: lets continue this discussion on the list
... lets not lose your proposal and concerns on the list Anssi

anssik: need to make future proofing a requirement
... native apps depend on wifi availability, typically fastest and free

Testing

fjh: any updates on testing?

anssik: none from me

Issue Review

fjh: we can defer discussion of Network Service Discovery and Network Information API issues to list
... what about vibration issues

ISSUE-149?

<trackbot> ISSUE-149 -- handling of long vibration list - truncate or no vibration at all -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/149

ISSUE-150?

<trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- Should vibration be additive when multiple instances, e.g. iframes -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/150

ISSUE-156?

<trackbot> ISSUE-156 -- add the [Clamp] attribute to the argument of the vibrate method -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/156

fjh: we had a problem with clamp, right

anssi: keyword not in WebIDL spec table yet
... still contoversial

ISSUE-156: defer until decision made for WebIDL spec regarding support for this, still not supported

<trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-156 add the [Clamp] attribute to the argument of the vibrate method.

<gmandyam_> Re: Network Information. Qualcomm solution for TCP socket management in aggregate can be found at http://www.qualcomm.com/research/projects/traffic-management. My point was that use cases are not enough - any API that is designed independent of HW optimizations could result in a degradation in performance.

fjh: I'll review the vibration issues and send message to the list regarding status if needed

<scribe> ACTION: fjh to review status of vibration issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-dap-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-672 - Review status of vibration issues [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-12-19].

Action review

ACTION-523?

<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523

anssik: need to check status on this with QA team, should have test suite feature complete, will check

ACTION-645?

<trackbot> ACTION-645 -- Frederick Hirsch to Share Network Service Discovery editors draft with PING -- due 2013-07-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/645

fjh: did this and scheduled meeting

close ACTION-645

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-645.

ACTION-654?

<trackbot> ACTION-654 -- Jean-Claude Dufourd to Propose text for network service discovery to define wildcard api and feature detection -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/654

cathy: proposal on list

close ACTION-654

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-654.

ACTION-657?

<trackbot> ACTION-657 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Revise battery tests for idlharness, find qa person to help -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/657

anssi: will check status, should be done

ACTION-654: link to JCD's proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Oct/0157.html

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-654 Propose text for network service discovery to define wildcard api and feature detection.

<anssik> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/battery-status

ACTION-657: done, see https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/battery-status

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-657 Revise battery tests for idlharness, find qa person to help.

close ACTION-657

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-657.

ACTION-660?

<trackbot> ACTION-660 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Determine interest in progressing network information api or not -- due 2013-09-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/660

anssik: discussion on list has been good, some are spending time on this on list

fjh: DAP should not progress spec until we have implementation support and an idea of where to go, but we should be active on list discussing also with Google App list, webmob, and mozilla discussion etc

anssik: thanks to webmob for the work
... have done internal discussion, see value in API but want to start with use cases

ACTION-660: can see value in the API but want to start with use cases

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-660 Determine interest in progressing network information api or not.

close ACTION-660

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-660.

gmandyam: in sysapps wg working on connection API, should we see how that progresses first and then work on network information API?

anssik: sysapps api seems to be low level api like josh is proposing and I think DAP API should be more abstract, that might be a useful split
... seems to reflect charters of the groups

fjh: need to see how this is reflected in the DAP charter
... any idea of the sysapps time frame for that API?

anssik: not clear, there are higher priority items, needs work
... maybe should spec both and see which gets used

fjh: should include the various discussion lists but maybe a draft makes it easier to get feedback

ACTION-665?

<trackbot> ACTION-665 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Update vibration draft per action-652 -- due 2013-10-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/665

ACTION-652?

<trackbot> ACTION-652 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Make proposal on list regarding multiple vibration api invocations in frames for vibration -- due 2013-09-11 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/652

anssik: updated algorithm

close ACTION-665

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-665.

ACTION-666?

<trackbot> ACTION-666 -- Giridhar Mandyam to Check with internal implementers whether vibration api is consistent with chip capabilities -- due 2013-10-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/666

gmandyam: still working on this
... will post to the list after the holidays

ACTION-671?

<trackbot> ACTION-671 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Prepare shelved note publications after tpac http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-device-apis/2013nov/0010.html -- due 2013-11-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/671

Other Business

fjh: may cancel the call next week unless we have new discussion items; please share status updates on the list

<mats> the link in ACTION-671 doesn't work

working link for ACTION-671: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Nov/0010.html (fixed action after call,thanks for noting error)

fjh: please share Note publication drafts on list for review before publication, suggest creating template, reviewing and then updating

<anssik> http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-acss

email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Nov/0023.html

language for shelving, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/calendar/

<anssik> "The Device APIs Working Group is currently not pursuing the approach outlined in this draft, so it should be considered historical. Please treat this document with caution and do not reference it or use it as the basis for implementation. The domain covered by this document is still within the scope of the Working Group as defined in its Charter. The

<anssik> Working Group may pursue an alternative API design that is based on the current Web browser security model."

<anssik> perhaps leave out "The Working Group may pursue an alternative API design that is based on the current Web browser security model"

fjh: suggest: "Work on this document has been discontinued and it should not be referenced or used as a basis for implementation." instead of "This document has been superseded."
... new paragraph: This is a historical document. The domain covered by this document is still within the scope of the Working Group as defined in its Charter."
... please share template with me, I can review and then we can go forward
... if we do not have a call next week have a Merry Christmas/good holiday

Adjourn

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fjh to review status of vibration issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-dap-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $