- From: Yongge Wang <ywang@certicom.com>
- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:33:03 -0500
- To: xml-encryption@w3.org
Hi, Joseph, Thanks for the information on the discussion of element and attribute. My personal opinion is that XML-Encryption SHOULD support attribute encryption. The reason is as you have mentioned... our standard should be "bad-design-tolerant"... Indeed in some cases perhaps it is not even a problem of bad-design.. For the plain text entropy problem.. we are mostly concerned with the ECB (Electronic Codebook) attack or others... and this happens mostly when encrypting a small atribute value or even a small enough element. In order to overcome this problem, XML-Encryption may recommend several techniques, e.g., 1. Each time when encrypting a small text, a different symmetric encryption key "SHOULD" be used (either with RSA-or ECIES-encryption of the session random symmetric key, or with different ECDH or DH ephemeral exponents). That is, a pre-shared symmetric key MUST not be used. 2. The plain-text MUST be padded with session randomness and then encrypted in CBC mode. I also suggest that XML encryption SHOULD before XML-DSIG (though this might not be possile in practice for all the time). I am not sure whehter we can specify this. But otherwise, signature schemes will leak the plain-text information for sure. Especially, if the encrypted part can be dictionary-guessed. (e.g., the small attribute value... the attacker can guess the value of it and then hash it to compare with the signed hash value)... Yongge > The problem is that it is not so easy to say, "well sorry, that's bad > design." As a bit of history, there was a fair amount of argument about what > features went into XML1.0 itself. Folks argued about what bits to throw out > and extend (attributes, namespaces, PIs, encodings, etc.) from its mother > tongue, SGML. In fact, these arguments continue to this day [1] in the form > of proposals for the next version (2.0) or alternative versions (Simple > XML). We're fortunate that the arguments about XML 1.0 are over, but we're > unfortunate in that it is what it is, warts and all! People do use > attributes in ways that have heterogeneous security requirements. > > [1] http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=116 > > In the other XML security application <smile> I recall the WG having a > difficult time trying to come up with the conventions/rules for determining > when to store a data value in an attribute value or element content [2]. > While we were concerned with issues of terseness (keep it small in attribute > values), requirements for nested structures (if it needs to be extended, > make it an element), and the features provided by attributes such as > defaults (#FIXED) and attribute typing [3] (ID, IDREF, IDREFS), how things > would be encrypted was not one of them! This is one of the contributing > factors to the maxim that we can't expect people to design their schemas to > our convenience. > > [2] http://www.w3.org/Signature/Drafts/xmldsig-ed-conventions-19991019.html > [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#sec-attribute-types > > We can make an informed decision balancing application requirements against > design/implementation complexity. On the issue of application requirements, > we've had folks argue this is, and is not a requirement. This sort of > argument doesn't resolve with a satisfying "aha!" because the words can just > keep going back and forth, but I tend to err on the side of inclusion if a > chunk of people think it's important. On the issue of complexity, we've had > folks argue it's unnecessarily complex, and on this issue I tend to err on > the side of simplicity unless it's demonstrated otherwise. However, to that > end, Ed's taken the effort to demonstrate that what he wants to do *is* > possible, which I very much appreciate. > > I haven't made up my mind yet, as I'm still learning a lot in this > discussion. I suspect that if we don't do attribute encryption, when the WG > starts and represents that in its requirement document and proposal, we'll > certainly hear from a broader audience about it! I'm also wondering if > there's a middle ground between Blair/Phil/Thane's point of view and > Ed/Steve/Sanjeev's point of view so the WG could migrate its design if need > be once we start getting wider review, and I suspect this would also serve > the effort of hitting the end user sweet spot of scope versus complexity > (forcing attribute encryption implementation on everyone versus abandoning > the requirements of a part of the community.) Instead of being two complete > proposals, something that could be easily plugged in. Sort of like we ended > up doing with XPath and Signature. This might not be achievable in this > instance (need to think more) and we might just have to make a hard choice! > > With respect to plain text entropy and length, I expect we're going to need > solutions to these problems regardless.
Received on Thursday, 18 January 2001 12:33:18 UTC