- From: Martin Gudgin <mgudgin@microsoft.com>
- Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:21:33 -0800
- To: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>, "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com>
- Cc: <jones@research.att.com>, <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
> -----Original Message----- > From: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com] > Sent: 31 January 2003 21:53 > To: Sanjiva Weerawarana > Cc: jones@research.att.com; Martin Gudgin; xml-dist-app@w3.org > Subject: Re: AFTF requirements, pre-2003/01/31 telcon > > > "Martin Gudgin" <mgudgin@microsoft.com> writes: > > > > We would like to add another DR for discussion. This is > essentially a > > rewording of my earlier infoset related requirement in > concrete form. > > I will still be submitting a comment on the abstract feature spec. > > > > DRXX - A message with all its parts, however separated physically, > > must be representable as a single infoset and describable > as a single > > XML element in an XML schema. > > I have a concern with this proposed requirement. First of all, I > think it is really proposing a change to the SOAP 1.2 Attachment > Feature WD [1], > and not directly to the implementations for which we are gathering > requirements. Why does something that requires a change to[1] not relate to things for which we are gathering requirements? [1] is after all only a WD and subject to change without notice. Other requirements that we gather for the concrete feature may also result in changes to[1] > [1] is fairly clear that attachments are to > be named with > URIs and accessed using the normal mechanisms of the web (though the > actual resolution of the URIs, such as CID:, is presumably > provided by the > concrete embodiment of the feature in DIME, S+A or whatever.) I do not propose to change that. > > Furthermore, I prefer the status quo in [1]. I think the sorts of > information we are trying to carry are best typed with MIME types; I > believe that the URIs that refer to those attachments fit comfortably > into the Envelope infoset (as xsd:anyURI elements and/or > attributes), but that > the resource representations themselves do not. I want to be > able to be > able to say: "this part is of type image/gif". Indeed, I > would propose > (I think I did on one of our telcons): > > DRZZ: It must be possible to associate a MIME type with any or all of > the parts in a message. I agree entirely. > > This too, by the way, should perhaps be reflected more clearly in [1], > in addition to being reflected in the requirements we are developing > for concrete implementations. > > To restate the position I've stated before: > > I think we have a pretty good data model for attachments, and it's the > Web model not an XML infoset. All I'm proposing is that there be a way of building an Infoset from whatever packaging mechanism we choose. > The XML Infoset is the SOAP > envelope. Yes, and all the work we have done in the last 2+ years in the XMLP WG has been focussed on that SOAP envelope and a processing model for that envelope. I am curious as to what the motivation is for defining something which steps outside that work. > It can, > using the usual mechanisms of the Web, make references to > resources using > URIs. Agreed. > Some of those resources (or representations of them) will be > physically packaged with the message, and those we call attachments. > In > the cases of interest (as opposed to mailto: URIs), the > resources should > be capable of providing MIME-typed representations of > themselves using the > normal mechanisms of the Web. So, when the URIs are http: URIs, the > resources are (probably) not thought of as attachments and > are retrieved > using the normal mechanisms of http:. Each particular > packaging scheme, > as described in [1], defines the means by which it uses some > particular > set of URIs for retrieval of representations of attachments. And all I'm asking is that we provide a way of mapping those representations into the Infoset of the SOAP envelope. That way we can continue to leverage the SOAP processing model. > > That's it. I think it's a reasonable model. I think WSDL can model > it. Indeed, I think WSDL needs sooner or later to support this model > for non-attachment data. Applying it to attachments is just more > metadata, I > think (this URI will refer to a resource that travels with > the message, > this one won't, and this third one could be either way.) > > I really haven't seen either a motivation or an architecturally strong > design for including image/gif data in an XML Infoset. I think the SOAP processing model is a major motivation. > Actually, let me > soften that. I think the data model given 2 paras above is > the right one > for users. If someone wants to do a second packaging that > uses the XML > Schema hexBinary or base64Binary and that puts the parts in > SOAP headers, > expanded to character form, I think that might be worth > considering. That's pretty much exactly what I'm suggesting except I think we should define such a mapping for whatever packing we come up with. >It's > not a solution, IMO, to the requirement that we carry binary > as binary, > which is what we're supposed to do here. I'm not arguing against carrying binary as binary. Gudge > > I am very much opposed to any proposal that directly or indirectly > creates a binary data model in the Infoset at this time. > I think it's > a very subtle thing to get right, it needs to be very carefully > lined up with at > least the query data model, it breaks a lot of the things we > hold dear > about XML as a text standard, and I certainly don't think > it's something > we should back into in the course of doing attachments. > > Noah > > [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-soap12-af-20020814/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036 > IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676 > One Rogers Street > Cambridge, MA 02142 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >
Received on Monday, 3 February 2003 12:34:39 UTC