- From: Bijan Parsia <bparsia@isr.umd.edu>
- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:24:34 -0500
- To: "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com>
- Cc: <jean-jacques.moreau@crf.canon.fr>, <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>, <www-ws-desc@w3.org>, <paul.downey@bt.com>, <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>
On Mar 8, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: > Hi Paul, > >> seems to me that we spend most of our time trying to fix bugs in the > component >> model, in particular the area of composition. > If you want to claim that the Z notation stuff has brought up lots of > problems, > well, then the problem is that we decided to retrofit an abstraction > on top > of > an abstraction.. not the other way around. Record will show that I was > against > doing the Z notation from day one. Er...I don't think that's the best way to characterize it. I've not heard anything from Arthur that is an *introduction* of a a bug. Formalizing what you did (assuming an expressive enough formalism) theoretically should *reveal* bugs. The Z is, as I understand it, intended as an *expression* of our abstraction, not a further abstraction. It's like introducing a BNF for a grammar described with diagrams. There is the possibility of introducing new errors, but also the possibility of revealing unintended ambiguities, etc. >> The engineer in me wants to find a >> simpler solution rather than continue to add more sticky tape and >> chewing > gum. > > Well so do I. I hardly find this particular assault on the component > model a > good reason to throw it all away and start with a new mess. > > As was re-asserted at the F2F, the spec as its written was explicitely > not > written for end-users (read as people implementing services) but > rather for > implementors (read as people implementing WSDL tools/runtimes, SOAP > stacks, etc.). [snip] While I acknowledge the historical truth of this, I think it's an unhappy way of putting it. Expert WSDLers, gurus, people who care about getting it right, so-called language lawyers are generally much happier with precision than "average readability", at least in specifications. So the audience for this style is, to my mind, much broader than *just* implementers. So, let's consider some W3C specs: Schema: component model abstraction XQuery: Formal semantics RDF/XML Syntax: Infoset to *Event model*, grammar defined over the event stream OWL: *Abstract syntax*, and then model theory (semantics) I'm sure there are more. Even if such abstractions were only for the *spec writers*, so they could be sure they were getting it right, then it seems worth it. A spec needs authority. It must be possible to read it to *resolve* disputes, even if that takes a great deal of effort. Someone (Augustine? Aquinas?) said, roughly, don't write to be understood; write so as not to be *mis*understood. I'm for that. Helping people understand is good too, but not the dominant virtue in this case. Cheers, Bijan Parsia.
Received on Tuesday, 8 March 2005 16:24:50 UTC