- From: David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:30:21 -0800
- To: "'He, Hao'" <Hao.He@thomson.com.au>, "'Michael Champion '" <mc@xegesis.org>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Why, an extensibility model to separate headers and bodies, as well as mustUnderstand/mustIgnore semantics, and targetting intermediaries with headers, and meps and ... I though that was obvious. Try to add a mustUnderstand header targetted at an intermediary into an HTTP message. Dave > 4. What is the architectural significance of SOAP after its > moving away from > the > role of RPC encoder? > > Hao > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Champion > To: 'www-ws-arch@w3.org ' > Sent: 1/23/2004 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: Section 1.6 and REST - Can we make this more > clear and useful ? > > > > On Jan 23, 2004, at 6:35 AM, He, Hao wrote: > > > I strongly oppose the text because it does more harm to the > document > > than > > good. > > I don't have any particular desire to put this in the document. I'm > stating my personal views using Roger's expression of his view as a > starting point. The very LAST thing I want to do is reopen the REST > debate if it is divisive; the point I took from the discussion > yesterday was to find a *useful* way to summarize what we > learned from > the debate. > > > > > > > SOAP is a specific technology. One can use it RESTfully or > > non-RESTfully. > > If one uses it RESTfully, one gets the nice architectural > properties > > such as > > reliability, scalability, extensibility, etc ... . If one uses it > > non-RESTfully, one has to prepare for the aftermath of > tight coupling > > (the > > old wonderful world of distributed objects). > > I pretty much agree (although I'm not particularly happy by > saying that > the alternative to REST is "distributed objects." But we've never > managed to come up with a good term for "non-REST". > > > > > In short, saying that REST is only useful for simple > applications, is > > totally misleading. > > > > Well, I think this is the crux of the matter. I don't see > any example > of Web services as we define them, or "SOA" as the analysts and > marketers (and several of our companies!) are using the term, > that use > REST in a complex way. Maybe we will; I wouldn't be surprised, but I > want to see the proof before putting my own credibility on the line. > > Anyway, this is where I come down (personally, not necessarily what I > want the WSA document to say): REST is demonstrably useful and > efficient for straightforward, information-oriented, Web-based > automated services. Amazon is a real world example; their RESTful > interface for programatically looking up information on books > is quite > a bit more popular than their SOAP/WSDL distributed object > API. Beyond > that, I just don't know of compelling examples, and the lack of a > support for doing much with SOAP for requesting data in a RESTful way > seems like a show-stopper for using REST in a multi-network, > high-security, transaction-oriented manner. (I'm > referring to the > fact that there's no obvious way to encode a complex SOAP > message in a > URI). Bottom line: REST is a tool that Web services / SOA developers > should know how to use and when it can be used most effectively, but > not treat it as a philosophy to be applied whenever a distributed > system needs to be built. (That message seems to go over > well with the > audiences I speak to on this subject) > > As for the WSA document, I'm reasonably happy with what we say in the > current draft. Roger thinks we can put in more clear and useful > language summarizing what we think about REST. I'm sure > that each of > us as individuals can do so, but I doubt if we can get much clearer > than the current document text and maintain a consensus. But I said > I'd try :-) >
Received on Friday, 23 January 2004 12:35:26 UTC