RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence

joe,

thanks, i agree,
i have tried to state that by saying well defined interface. IMHO this
provides the flexibility of using messaging systems such as SOAP. (I
emphasize the word such as ...)

abbie


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Hui [mailto:jhui@digisle.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:34 PM
> To: Barbir, Abbie [CAR:1A00:EXCH]; michael.mahan@nokia.com;
> Austin.D@ic.grainger.com
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris
> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
> 
> 
> Hi Abbie,
>  
> I think platform independence can be better ensured without
> introducing a dependence on JAVA.  At the lower level, endpoints
> are communicate over socket connections, and socket semantics
> are widely supported in many languages: C/C++/C#, JAVA, ...
> IMHO a better approach to platform independence is through better
> messaging, such as adopting a ubiquetous message format, say SOAP.
>  
> Joe Hui
> Exodus, a Cable & Wireless service
> =============================
> ----Original Message----- 
> From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com] 
> Sent: Tue 3/19/2002 7:48 AM 
> To: michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com 
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris 
> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
> 
> 
> 
>  Mike and all,
>   
>  Per the last teleconference call D-AG004 is still open 
> and must be closed by the next call.
>  In this e-mail I attempt to close the issues regarding 
> the design Goal.
>  The goal as stated 
>  " 
>  D-AG0004 
>  ensures platform independence of web services 
> components in a way that does not preclude any programming 
> model nor assume any particular mode of communication between 
> the individual components 
> 
>  "
> 
>  In my original e-mail I have riased some issues 
> regarding the goal, but unfortunatly I did not get good track.
>   
>  So here are my $.002,
>   
>  Discussion:
>  ------------------
>   
>  In order to ensure platform independence, we need the following:
>  1. Adopt the use of platform independent languages such 
> as JAVA. 
>  2. Have very well defined interfaces to web components 
> that are general and could be invoked using appropriate protocols.
>  3. Try to use XML and other markup techniques that 
> ensures the ability to invoke web components using variaty of 
> protocols.
>   
>   
>  The design goal can coexist with D-AG0003: is 
> sufficiently extensible and  with D-AG0005:provides 
> simplicity and ease-of-use that does not impose high barriers 
> to entry for users of web services. In my opnion, the 
> appropriate designs for platform independence interfaces can 
> help the above two stated golas.
>   
>   
>  Furtheremore, Some issues were raised regarding the 
> interdependecne of D-AG004 and D-AG011. Here D-AG011 is restated:
>   
>  CURRENT GOAL STATEMENT: 
>  Web Services are consistent with the existing web and 
> its heterogenous environment and distributed architecture to 
> the greatest extent possible.
>   
>  Discussion -2:
>  -------------------
>   
>  I really do think that the requirement of platform 
> independence does contradict the above design goal. In my 
> view designing for platform independence must be consistant 
> with D-AG011. So in this regard, D-AG011 can feed into D-AG004.
>   
>  Crtitical Success Factors:
>  ----------------------------------
>   
>  The design goal can be achieved through the insistance 
> on using platform independent development tools and languages 
> such as XML and JAVA. The interfaces to web components must 
> also be properly designed.
>   
>  Derived Requirements:
>  --------------------------------
>  1. Consistent definition of web components
>  2. Good definition of web components Interfaces.
>  3. Use XML based protocols for invoking the web components.
>   
>   
>  Current Recommendation:
>  --------------------------------------
>  The goal should stay as written
>   
>   
>  cheers
>  abbie
>   
>   
>  
>  
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: michael.mahan@nokia.com 
> [mailto:michael.mahan@nokia.com]
>   Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:48 AM
>   To: Austin.D@ic.grainger.com; Barbir, Abbie 
> [CAR:1A00:EXCH]
>   Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
>   Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
>   
>   
>   Hi Abbie,
>    
>   In message [1], I questioned whether platform 
> independence goal is separate from D-AG0011. Can you comment on that.
>    
>   Thx, Mike
>    
>    
>   [1] 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.h
> tml 
> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.html> 
> 
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: ext Austin, Daniel 
> [mailto:Austin.D@ic.grainger.com]
>    Sent: March 12, 2002 05:41 PM
>    To: 'Abbie Barbir'
>    Cc: 'www-ws-arch@w3.org'
>    Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform 
> independence
>    
>    
>    Hi Abbie,
>     
>        The text of this goal was quoted 
> directly from the group charter, so we have to be careful 
> about amending it. But I think these are good questions. What 
> are the answers?
>     
>    Regards,
>     
>    D-
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Abbie Barbir 
> [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com]
>     Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:19 PM
>     To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
>     Cc: Abbie Barbir
>     Subject: D-AG004: Ensures 
> platform independence
>     
>     
> 
> 
>     This message kicks off 
> discussion on goal 4, "ensures platform independence of web services" 
> 
>     Please comment on goal wording, 
> success factors, relation to other goals, etc. 
> 
>     The goal as stated 
>     " 
>     D-AG0004 
>     ensures platform independence 
> of web services components in a way that does not preclude 
> any programming model nor assume any particular mode of 
> communication between the individual components 
> 
>     " 
> 
>     Discussion: 
>     -------------- 
>     I think that the goal as stated 
> provides a nobel idea that software designers would like to 
> comply with. However, it seems to me that 
> 
>     1. A proper definition of the 
> term components must be provided, where the line would be 
> drawn on where and how the platform idependence could be achieved.
> 
>     2. In addition, does plateform 
> independence means the independence from the actual operating 
> system and/or programming language. 
> 
>     3. In order to be able not to 
> preclude any programming model, what kind of interface do we 
> assume for web services components?
> 
>     4. In order not to assume any 
> mode of communications between the individual components, how 
> would data be exchanged (if need be ?)
> 
>     
>     Other issues: 
>     ------------- 
> 
>     5. Is this redundant with 
> D-AG0003: is sufficiently extensible to allow for future 
> evolution of technology and of business goals 
> 
>      when combined with 
> D-AG0005:provides simplicity and ease-of-use that does not 
> impose high barriers to entry for users of web services 
> 
>     Critical success factors 
>     ------------------------ 
> 
>     How platform independence could 
> be measured, verified and achieved? and who will verify that? 
> 
>     cheers 
>     abbie 
> 
>