- From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:13:40 -0500
- To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>
- Cc: www-webont-wg@w3.org
>From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu> >Subject: Re: possible semantic bugs concerning domain and range >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:09:38 -0500 > >[...] > > > >> Heres a way to phrase the difference: call a class a protorange iff >> it contains all the values of a property. For you, protoranges are >> ranges. For me, only some of the protoranges need be ranges. Clearly, >> iff semantics is appropriate for protoranges; but many applications >> of the notion of range require us to be able to identify particular >> protoranges as the ones to which other information is associated, > >I would like to know about these applications. In particular, I would like >to know about these applications that actually work correctly in the >presence of super-properties with different ranges. Well, I have to confess to not being able to cite particular ones from here in my ivory tower, but I have been given that strong impression by others in the WG. And I can certainly imagine some: for example, suppose that one had a class of classes corresponding to the categories that are known to have associated implemented systems (say, membership in which can be checked by a particular kind of efficient application); and one wanted to say that a property range was in that class. YOu are right to observe that this kind of reasoning requires some care with subPropertyOf. HOwever, I have noticed that almost ALL uses of subPropertyOf require care, and indeed that many users never use it for just this reason. > >> and >> if we make the identification then this ability to distinguish >> particular protoranges is lost (or requires extra machinery). Whereas >> it seems to me that applying the iff semantics provides no useful >> extra entailments. It allows one to conclude that many more classes >> are ranges, of course, but all this does is make manifest that the >> notion of 'range' has been (from my point of view) fatally weakened. > >Please present some indication of how the iff definition of range fatally >weakens the notion of `range'. Well, perhaps fatally is rather too strong. Given your semantics, I could hack round it by introducing a class of classes called 'real ranges' or some such, and then what I call a range is a pfps-range that is also a real range. So I guess its more of an aesthetic difference than a fatal one. But since the difference is only aesthetic, I see no good reason to change what we already have. > >> These can all be expressed using my notion of range and >> rdfs:subClassOf or rdf:type. The important inferences about ranges - >> notably, the kind that arise from an association of a datatype with a >> range - apply in both semantics, but require more care to state in >> yours. > >Do these inferences actually work? I thought that RDF Core had decided >that they didn't work in the presence of super-properties. No, the problem was the possibility of an XML datatype value space being included in another when the datatype mappings were incompatible, and we basically decided to punt on that one. I don't think superproperties pose any problem, but maybe I missed something: what do you see as the problem there? Pat -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola, FL 32501 (850)202 4440 fax phayes@ai.uwf.edu http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/~phayes
Received on Wednesday, 25 September 2002 13:13:31 UTC