- From: James Ralston <qralston+ml.www-validator@andrew.cmu.edu>
- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:13:41 -0500 (EST)
- To: <webmaster@domovina.net>
- cc: <www-validator@w3.org>, Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Frank Tiggelaar wrote: > However, since we have lost confidence in w3.org, we shall abandon > w3c validition, not only at Domovina Net, but also at BB&H > Consultancy and its clients' websites. From now on the only > criterium will be that pages look OK in Internet Deplorer. A crying > shame, of course, but we cannot afford to deliver validated pages > only to find out a week later they're no longer valid. This is a fairly childish reaction, don't you think? The only reason for saying "from now on, we're only going to make sure our pages look good in IE, neener neener neener" to the W3C can be that in your anger you blame to W3C for the fact that you are currently delivering pages that falsely claim to be valid, and you want to make yourself feel better by annoying them. Whether saying this made you feel any better, I don't know, but if you indeed carry through on your threat, you're only hurting yourself (and the visitors to your sites). Of *course* you can afford to deliver validated pages and find out a week later that they're no longer valid. The fact that some (probably minor) change of interpretation caused your page to no longer be valid doesn't mean that the time you spent making the page valid (before the change in interpretation) was wasted--not only did your clients benefit from your being valid, but chances are, the changes required to bring your page into the (new definition of) validity will be trivial. And in the meantime, your clients will still benefit from your being almost valid, rather than having to try to render a page that barely passed for [X]HTML to begin with. What you don't want to do is deliver pages that proclaim themselves to be valid, but aren't. And the way to do that is simple: validate the pages, but simply refrain from putting the "valid [X]HTML x.x!" image and text on the page. However, along those lines... The more I think about the "valid [X]HTML x.x!" image issue, the more I believe that Frank has a valid complaint there. For I have reached this conclusion: Encouraging web authors to put "valid [X]HTML x.x!" images (or text to that effect) on pages that have been validated is Evil. The W3C validator service should immediately cease this behavior. Consider this text: "To show your readers that you have taken the care to create an interoperable Web page, you may display this icon on any page that validates. Here is the HTML you could use to add this icon to your Web page." Does *anyone* on this mailing list honestly believe that the #1 concern someone surfing the web has is whether the page they're looking at is a valid implementation of a computer language specification? Hell, for probably 99% of people looking at web pages, the text and images they see on their screen might as well be caused by little gnomes running around inside their computer. They don't know how it all works, and they don't care. That doesn't make them stupid; it just means that they're not HTML authors or computer scientists. There's only one real reason to encourage people to put the "valid [X]HTML x.x!" image and text on their web page: evangelism; to spread the word of the validator service, and to let web authors and web designers know about the importance of interoperability. These are good intentions, but the way the W3C validator acts on them is a terrible betrayal of trust: it encourages web authors to make advertisements under the assumption that the definition of "valid" (for a particular version of [X]HTML) will never change. That assumption cannot be guaranteed. Frank's mistake wasn't in using the validator. Frank's mistake was in following the validator's encouragement and becoming an evangelist for the validator. Now Frank is delivering thousands of pages that falsely claim to be valid, and his first reaction--as I suspect will be the case for many people in this situation--is to say "screw the validator". The good intentions of the W3C have backfired, and badly. This is why the validator should immediately cease its evangelism. It's too late to undo the damage that has already been done, but no more people should be encouraged to put "valid [X]HTML x.x!" icons on their pages. Here's my suggestion (a rough example) for what the validator should return in the case where it successfully validates the page: Below are the results of checking this document for XML well-formedness and validity. No errors found! * If you want to keep track of when you last checked the validity of this Web page, here is a comment suitable for adding to the page: <!-- W3C validation service <http://validator.w3.org/> results Valid XHTML 1.1 as of 2001-12-16 17:34:00-04 --> If you use CSS in your document, you should also check it for validity using the W3C CSS Validation Service. If you'd like to help spread the word about the W3C validation service, and also make it easier to re-check the current page, you can add this link to the page: <p> <a href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">Validate this page!</a> </p> We advise *against* adding text to your page to say that it is valid: in rare cases, DTDs may be revised, and cause pages that once passed validation to fail validation. (It's also theoretically possible that the validator contains bugs that could cause it to erroneously validate a few invalid pages.) The key points are: 1. Put any "valid [X]HTML x.x!" information in comments; it's only going to be useful to the author of the page, not the people who are rendering the page. 2. Generate a timestamp on any "valid [X]HTML x.x!" information, so that the author can figure out later *when* the page was valid. 3. Ask the author to help spread the word about the W3C, but not in a way that will leave him up the creek if the W3C has to move the goalposts. Another possibility would be to change the behavior of the check/referer link so that it presents the information in a manner suitable for the average web surfer, not web authors. That would be the perfect hook for evangelism. (E.g., what is HTML, what does "valid" HTML mean, why should I care, etc.) -- James Ralston, Information Technology Software Engineering Institute Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Received on Sunday, 16 December 2001 18:14:02 UTC