- From: Jukka K. Korpela <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>
- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:55:01 +0200 (EET)
- To: www-validator-css@w3.org
- Cc: ceo@alierra.com
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005, olivier Thereaux wrote: > How would you suggest we could improve our message that "validation is > good, but it is neither flawless nor an ultimate goal"? May I? The critique was probably based on a) not understanding what a markup validator is and b) bad experiences from people who don't understand that either but wish to throw validator reports at other people. But the question you raise is good, so I will make a few comments (not that I wouldn't have made similar comments earlier). To improve that message, first remove explicit statements and implicit references to the contrary: 1. At http://validator.w3.org/ the first sentence says that the service "checks documents like HTML and XHTML for conformance to W3C Recommendations and other standards". The concept of "standard" aside, the statement, as understood by common people, is false. Passing the markup validation test does not ensure conformance to W3C recommendations, not to mention other standards. Think about WAI recommendations, for example. Passing the test does not even ensure conformance to HTML recommendations. I'm sure you know this, but the statement says otherwise. People do _not_ read it as you meant it, as checking _some_ aspects of conformance. (So what _should_ it say? "Checks documents like HTML or XHTML for conformance to certain syntactic requirements". You can't use much simpler language without saying something that simply isn't true, given the normal meanings of words to normal people.) 2. In the validation reports, the exclamation mark in (very emphatically presented) statements like "This Page Is Valid HTML 4.01 Transitional!" is not only childish but also seriously misleading. It gives the impression that validity is something to be really proud of, something to be _shouted_. - Besides, the formulation is misleading in a deeper sense as well, especially when the DTD used is not one of the DTDs given in specifications but a customized one. Moreover, "This Page" is an odd reference; in a document, you would expect it to refere to the page itself, wouldn't you? (Issuing simply "No errors detected in validation" or "N errors detected in validation" would be better, though I know from a long experience that people so often think that "No errors detected", e.g. from a programming language compiler, means that there are no errors. But it would be an improvement.) 3. Remove the Tips Of The Day. While most, if not all, of the tips themselves are important and largely correct, this is not the place to present tips. People keep misunderstanding them as relating to the validation and even to their specific page being validated. Then they start wondering e.g. why the tip tells them to use the alt attribute when they have no elements that allow such an attribute, or when they have used an alt attribute for every element that needs one. And there aren't even tips _of the day_ (but apparently picked up at random). 4. Stop recommending that people add icons on their pages. I've explained the reasons earlier, see http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html#icon This is the most important single improvement. It also removes much of the irrelevant or misleading content from the validator's report, thereby promoting the idea that reports shall be simple, concise, and to the point. In the current wordings, the following is especially bad: "To show your readers that you have taken the care to create an interoperable Web page - -" In addition to recommending that people show off, it relates validity to "taking care" and to interoperability. I think you know perfectly well that validity does not guarantee interoperability. So don't say it does. (The current formulation claims that, when normal people read it, assigning normal meanings to words and expressions.) But the entire text about validation icons should be removed. That's the real cure. I know there will be difficulties because people now have icons that link to the validator page, and they might be used to using them for re-validation of their page, and the change in policy might raise some questions. Such things can however be fixed by adding a link to an explanation of the policy change, perhaps including instructions on re-validation shortcuts that don't spoil one's page. -- Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Received on Saturday, 15 January 2005 08:55:35 UTC