Draft TAG Teleconference Minutes 2nd of May 2013

Web Version: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html

                               - DRAFT -

                  W3C TAG Teleconference of 2 May 2013

02 May 2013


      [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-agenda


          Noah_Mendelsohn, Daniel_Appelquist, Peter_Linss,
          Jeni_Tennison, Marcos_Caceres, Alex_Russell,

          Tim_Berners-Lee, Henry_Thompson_(partial), Yehuda_Katz

          Noah Mendelsohn

          Marcos Caceres


     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]F2F Logistics
         2. [5]New Members, yay! Noah resigns, boo!
         3. [6]F2F Discussions
     * [7]Summary of Action Items

   <scribe> scribenick: Marcos

   <scribe> scribe: Marcos Caceres

   date: 2 May 2013

F2F Logistics

   noah: we have a few weeks to get ready for the F2F. This is the
   best time to start picking topics for the F2F.
   ... I had an action to close ACTION-799


   ACTION-799 -- Noah Mendelsohn to republish authoritative
   metadata finding -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW


      [8] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/799

   close ACTION-799

   <scribe> Closed ACTION-799 Republish authoritative metadata


   ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based
   on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW


      [9] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752

   JeniT: May not be in TR space yet

   noah: and also ACTION-752
   ... we will leave it open and settle it over email.
   ... I will rely on JeniT to help me close the action.
   ... and also if we should discuss that at the f2f.

New Members, yay! Noah resigns, boo!

   noah: before we start discussing the f2f, we have good new: we
   have 2 new TAG members!

   alex: hooray! welcome.

   noah: we have Daniel Appelquist (dan) and Peter Linss (plinns)
   joining us

   alex: boo! sorry to hear that, noah

   noah: and I will be resigning officially on june 1st
   ... Ian Jacobs will send out a note in about 1 hour after this
   call. The new tag members will join on June 1st.
   ... one of the reasons for doing this now is that the TAG has
   been changing. I'm 100% supportive of the new membership.
   ... dan and plinss will co-chair the TAG
   ... I'll continue to help the new co-chairs get settled
   ... so, that's the news :)
   ... I want to be clear that as much as I've enjoyed and
   continue to enjoy chairing the TAG, this is great news. The TAG
   is going to find that it's VERY lucky to have such terrific new
   chairs who are so respected in the community, who know the
   technology and the TAG, and who are experienced with chairing.

   dan: Thanks noah! I'm incredibly honored to take up this role.
   Thanks Noah for the fantastic work; can't possibly fill your
   shoes. I'm looking forward to the F2F so we can plan new work
   and get some renewed energy into the TAG. Looking forward to
   working with you all.

   noah: I've had a fantastic time working with the TAG, and
   especially with our newest members, but with Tim having found
   such terrific replacements for me as chair, this is the perfect
   time to make the switch.
   ... I hope Peter and Dan will "drive" as much as they can of
   the chairing starting now, but I will also continue to help
   them after I officially resign on June 1.

   plinss: Want to echo what dan said. I'm also excited to take up
   this role. I hope help make us more agile, and help us reach
   out more to the W3C groups, and to bring new positive changes.

   noah: I would like you guys to start chairing as much as
   possible as soon as possible. And to chair as much as you can
   at the f2f; as much as you want to.

F2F Discussions

   noah: I was going to go around the room and get a sense of what
   everyone wants to discuss/get-out-of the upcoming London f2f.
   We have some outstanding actions from the last F2F meeting.


   ACTION-786 -- Marcos Caceres to frame, with help from Alex,
   discussion of Javascript API Design Issues for F2F -- due
   2013-03-04 -- CLOSED


     [10] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/786


   ACTION-788 -- Yehuda Katz to frame F2F discussion of liaison
   with ECMA TC39 -- due 2013-03-07 -- CLOSED


     [11] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/788


   ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame
   F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN


     [12] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784

   noah: I went through the minutes of the actions outstanding
   from the f2f. (actions above)
   ... so I will open it up for anyone that wants to come up with
   more stuff
   ... That's it for the F2F-related actions we have so far.

   dan: we should keep some time at the f2f for a "workshop-ey"
   type discussion about how the TAG operates
   ... that's not to say that it's not working. It's just a good
   time to reflect on how the TAG works. It's an important
   discussion to have as maybe half day session. So we can get
   some resolutions about if we need to change anything (if at

   plinss: everything is up for grabs here. We have a different
   style and there are lots of different way of doing things
   (e.g., the CSS working group that I'm involved with does things
   much differently). So it would be good to revisit everything
   about how we work.

   JeniT: I was going to mention technical bits of work. One was
   capability URLs. The other is something around web arch, where
   we have web applications interacting with each other.

   noah: Something that I've wrestled for a few years is: what
   kind of impact should the TAG have? Where have we failed? If
   you do too much top down, you can end up with meta discussions
   that don't get you very far. So I want members to think about
   where the TAG can have most impact going forward.
   ... Right, I specifically would encourage you to think a bit
   about what overall goals and priorities for the TAG should be
   for the next two years. That helps to avoid just picking up 6
   or 8 random things.

   marcos: Anne, Alex, and Yehuda have been picking up specs and
   reviewing them behind the scenes - which is great. I've also
   been doing some of that too.
   ... There are also outreach opportunities, and things like
   interaction with TC-39 are to some degree happening already
   through folks like Anne, Alex and Yehuda. Plus there is also
   the public-script-coord mailing list.
   ... Maybe instead of trying to produce findings, more emphasis
   on outreach would be good.

   dan: Fits into "how do we do work" - so how can we track which
   touch-points TAG members have?
   ... my first exposure to the TAG was when I was working with
   mobile best practices, and we reached out to the TAG for help.
   The TAG was really helpful there to that work, and I think the
   TAG has a good role to play there.

   marcos: I spend my life in a bug tracker. It would be good to
   have a more bug-tracky way to track what the tag is working on
   (i.e, something better than the w3c tracker).

   noah: the tricky bit is staying focus and making sure that we
   have clear priorities

   dan: I was going to ask Alex if he had any comments?
   ... One of the proposals I've heard from someone is to work to
   make w3c working groups work better with the TAG. More useful
   interaction between working groups and the TAG...

   alex: I'm sad to hear, noah, that you are going. In terms of
   what we can do, I'm spending significant time of my day
   reviewing and helping API designers. But that doesn't scale. So
   we need some way to scale that - my hope is that the TAG can
   become a force multiplier for that (helping folks). So it would
   be good to have a document that discusses idiomatic javascript
   APIs, how to build good APIs, etc. (see ACTION-786).

   dan: I think that also sits under the category of "how we work
   better with other W3C WGs"
   ... previously, it felt like a distraction when we interacted
   with other working groups (e.g., at F2F meetings). Like we were
   imposing on them. It should be that the WGs should be coming to
   the TAG for help and so we can provide them with help and
   positive experience.
   ... Other groups used to feel like interacting with the TAG was
   a hoop to jump through, and that's unfortunate. My experience
   on mobile working with TAG was positive but perhaps atypical.
   We need to be part of the solution.
   ... Maybe nominate TAG ambassadors. Need to get interaction
   model right.

   noah: plinss, any more ideas of how you would like to drive
   this forward?

   plinss: not right now

   annevk: One thing that might help is doing things a bit more
   informally. E.g., allowing members to go out and do things on
   their own.
   ... I think you have more success if you approach people in an
   informal way in my experience

   dan: again, I feel that falls under the "how we work".

   noah: Hmm, Anne's making an interesting point. I think the TAG
   has had a preconception that we had most impact speaking as a
   group, which we can only do w/ near consensus, but Anne may be
   right. It's possible we've missed an opportunity to
   de-emphasize that "speak as one" formal channel in favor of
   exposing various opinions held by TAG members.

   alex: I agree with Marcos -- and flag myself guilty of not
   reporting back often enough

   noah: I will say that on >some< things, the painful effort to
   work to consensus has taught us all a lot, by forcing us to
   listen to what seemed initially outlier opinions.

   dan: I'm interested in seeing how we can make our work more
   relevant to the Web community. For example, the work on
   layering would probably fall into that bucket. i.e., how can we
   best connect with the Web dev community

   alex: I agree with annevk that that's a great thing to look at

   dan: +1 to discussing the work of the sysapps wg installable
   apps, etc.

   annevk: I'm interested in discussing the work of the sysapps
   working group is doing. They are doing installable apps and it
   could potentially lead to a walled garden scenario- how does it
   work with the web?

   dan: +1 +1 +1

   alex: agree. I think this has implications for a permissioning
   model that nobody wants to bite off yet for various reasons
   ... plus an install model

   annevk: I want to look at how w can be more competitive with
   web tech and obliterate walled gardens

   dan: I don't think that installable apps are a real risk to the
   openness of the web.
   ... the w3c headlight's "closing the gap" project is also
   looking into this. We should probably get Dom to come and speak
   to us about that.

   anne: (Yeah I don't think they're a threat per se. It's good
   they exist. I just think it might be worth looking into ways of
   not having them so you don't need centralized/decentralized

   dan: The whole sysapps/closing the gap thing is a huge
   discussion point for the this year. It's going to have changes
   in the way that users perceive the web, so we should be
   involved in that

   marcos: Dan and I are both involved in the headlights project.
   The TAG Ambadassador(tm) idea could be used in that context.

   noah: we have few technical items for the f2f, apart from the
   layering work. We really have a choice in this meeting: we got
   what we got and run with it. But if there is technical stuff to
   be discussed, we need to get focused and start researching over
   the next few weeks.

   dan: i think that because of the transition the TAG is going
   through, we need to focus on where we are going - and maybe
   move more of the technical stuff to the mailing list.

   noah: yeah, that was my feeling also for the last f2f, because
   of all the next people - allowing people to get settled. The
   risk is that we are going to get to October and we are still
   going to be trying to get organized.
   ... that's just my perception

   alex: +1, JeniT

   JeniT: the only other thing is if there is anyone in London
   that we should invite to the meeting?

   noah: can anyone think of someone?

   dan: what about someone from the open data space?

   JeniT: it is likely that the w3c is going to open up new groups
   in the open data space. Maybe Phil Archer?

   dan: it would be good to have a slot in the agenda for open

   noah: what about a field trip to odi (Open Data Initiative?)

   dan: I'm worried about losing time to have focused discussions.
   Maybe we can meet with them after hours?

   JeniT: we've done something like that previously

   alex: could we perhaps open up a dinner and invite webdevs to
   come meet us?
   ... London has lots of folks who might want to inject some

   anne: we might even be able to host that...

   alex: I love the idea of a meetup. +1 to Dan's suggestion!

   dan: we could maybe meet with devs at Mozilla

   marcos: +1

   noah: there is not much else on the agenda for today's call.

   JeniT: thank you noah!

   anne: thanks!

   noah: I'm not hearing a big push to plan more technical stuff.
   So the next call will be in 2 weeks. Again, a big welcome to
   the new co-chairs! I think the TAG is incredibly lucky. My role
   is to support them. Thanks everyone! we are adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

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Marcos Caceres

Received on Friday, 3 May 2013 14:01:56 UTC