- From: Marcos Caceres <marcos@marcosc.com>
- Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:01:23 +0100
- To: "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Web Version: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html
- DRAFT -
W3C TAG Teleconference of 2 May 2013
02 May 2013
[2]Agenda
[2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-agenda
Attendees
Present
Noah_Mendelsohn, Daniel_Appelquist, Peter_Linss,
Jeni_Tennison, Marcos_Caceres, Alex_Russell,
Anne_van_Kesteren
Regrets
Tim_Berners-Lee, Henry_Thompson_(partial), Yehuda_Katz
Chair
Noah Mendelsohn
Scribe
Marcos Caceres
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]F2F Logistics
2. [5]New Members, yay! Noah resigns, boo!
3. [6]F2F Discussions
* [7]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribenick: Marcos
<scribe> scribe: Marcos Caceres
date: 2 May 2013
F2F Logistics
noah: we have a few weeks to get ready for the F2F. This is the
best time to start picking topics for the F2F.
... I had an action to close ACTION-799
ACTION-799?
ACTION-799 -- Noah Mendelsohn to republish authoritative
metadata finding -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
[8]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/799
[8] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/799
close ACTION-799
<scribe> Closed ACTION-799 Republish authoritative metadata
finding.
ACTION-752?
ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based
on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
[9]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752
[9] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752
JeniT: May not be in TR space yet
noah: and also ACTION-752
... we will leave it open and settle it over email.
... I will rely on JeniT to help me close the action.
... and also if we should discuss that at the f2f.
New Members, yay! Noah resigns, boo!
noah: before we start discussing the f2f, we have good new: we
have 2 new TAG members!
alex: hooray! welcome.
noah: we have Daniel Appelquist (dan) and Peter Linss (plinns)
joining us
alex: boo! sorry to hear that, noah
noah: and I will be resigning officially on june 1st
... Ian Jacobs will send out a note in about 1 hour after this
call. The new tag members will join on June 1st.
... one of the reasons for doing this now is that the TAG has
been changing. I'm 100% supportive of the new membership.
... dan and plinss will co-chair the TAG
... I'll continue to help the new co-chairs get settled
... so, that's the news :)
... I want to be clear that as much as I've enjoyed and
continue to enjoy chairing the TAG, this is great news. The TAG
is going to find that it's VERY lucky to have such terrific new
chairs who are so respected in the community, who know the
technology and the TAG, and who are experienced with chairing.
dan: Thanks noah! I'm incredibly honored to take up this role.
Thanks Noah for the fantastic work; can't possibly fill your
shoes. I'm looking forward to the F2F so we can plan new work
and get some renewed energy into the TAG. Looking forward to
working with you all.
noah: I've had a fantastic time working with the TAG, and
especially with our newest members, but with Tim having found
such terrific replacements for me as chair, this is the perfect
time to make the switch.
... I hope Peter and Dan will "drive" as much as they can of
the chairing starting now, but I will also continue to help
them after I officially resign on June 1.
plinss: Want to echo what dan said. I'm also excited to take up
this role. I hope help make us more agile, and help us reach
out more to the W3C groups, and to bring new positive changes.
noah: I would like you guys to start chairing as much as
possible as soon as possible. And to chair as much as you can
at the f2f; as much as you want to.
F2F Discussions
noah: I was going to go around the room and get a sense of what
everyone wants to discuss/get-out-of the upcoming London f2f.
We have some outstanding actions from the last F2F meeting.
ACTION-786?
ACTION-786 -- Marcos Caceres to frame, with help from Alex,
discussion of Javascript API Design Issues for F2F -- due
2013-03-04 -- CLOSED
[10]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/786
[10] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/786
ACTION-788?
ACTION-788 -- Yehuda Katz to frame F2F discussion of liaison
with ECMA TC39 -- due 2013-03-07 -- CLOSED
[11]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/788
[11] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/788
ACTION-784?
ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame
F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN
[12]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784
[12] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784
noah: I went through the minutes of the actions outstanding
from the f2f. (actions above)
... so I will open it up for anyone that wants to come up with
more stuff
... That's it for the F2F-related actions we have so far.
dan: we should keep some time at the f2f for a "workshop-ey"
type discussion about how the TAG operates
... that's not to say that it's not working. It's just a good
time to reflect on how the TAG works. It's an important
discussion to have as maybe half day session. So we can get
some resolutions about if we need to change anything (if at
all!)
plinss: everything is up for grabs here. We have a different
style and there are lots of different way of doing things
(e.g., the CSS working group that I'm involved with does things
much differently). So it would be good to revisit everything
about how we work.
JeniT: I was going to mention technical bits of work. One was
capability URLs. The other is something around web arch, where
we have web applications interacting with each other.
noah: Something that I've wrestled for a few years is: what
kind of impact should the TAG have? Where have we failed? If
you do too much top down, you can end up with meta discussions
that don't get you very far. So I want members to think about
where the TAG can have most impact going forward.
... Right, I specifically would encourage you to think a bit
about what overall goals and priorities for the TAG should be
for the next two years. That helps to avoid just picking up 6
or 8 random things.
marcos: Anne, Alex, and Yehuda have been picking up specs and
reviewing them behind the scenes - which is great. I've also
been doing some of that too.
... There are also outreach opportunities, and things like
interaction with TC-39 are to some degree happening already
through folks like Anne, Alex and Yehuda. Plus there is also
the public-script-coord mailing list.
... Maybe instead of trying to produce findings, more emphasis
on outreach would be good.
dan: Fits into "how do we do work" - so how can we track which
touch-points TAG members have?
... my first exposure to the TAG was when I was working with
mobile best practices, and we reached out to the TAG for help.
The TAG was really helpful there to that work, and I think the
TAG has a good role to play there.
marcos: I spend my life in a bug tracker. It would be good to
have a more bug-tracky way to track what the tag is working on
(i.e, something better than the w3c tracker).
noah: the tricky bit is staying focus and making sure that we
have clear priorities
dan: I was going to ask Alex if he had any comments?
... One of the proposals I've heard from someone is to work to
make w3c working groups work better with the TAG. More useful
interaction between working groups and the TAG...
alex: I'm sad to hear, noah, that you are going. In terms of
what we can do, I'm spending significant time of my day
reviewing and helping API designers. But that doesn't scale. So
we need some way to scale that - my hope is that the TAG can
become a force multiplier for that (helping folks). So it would
be good to have a document that discusses idiomatic javascript
APIs, how to build good APIs, etc. (see ACTION-786).
dan: I think that also sits under the category of "how we work
better with other W3C WGs"
... previously, it felt like a distraction when we interacted
with other working groups (e.g., at F2F meetings). Like we were
imposing on them. It should be that the WGs should be coming to
the TAG for help and so we can provide them with help and
positive experience.
... Other groups used to feel like interacting with the TAG was
a hoop to jump through, and that's unfortunate. My experience
on mobile working with TAG was positive but perhaps atypical.
We need to be part of the solution.
... Maybe nominate TAG ambassadors. Need to get interaction
model right.
noah: plinss, any more ideas of how you would like to drive
this forward?
plinss: not right now
annevk: One thing that might help is doing things a bit more
informally. E.g., allowing members to go out and do things on
their own.
... I think you have more success if you approach people in an
informal way in my experience
dan: again, I feel that falls under the "how we work".
noah: Hmm, Anne's making an interesting point. I think the TAG
has had a preconception that we had most impact speaking as a
group, which we can only do w/ near consensus, but Anne may be
right. It's possible we've missed an opportunity to
de-emphasize that "speak as one" formal channel in favor of
exposing various opinions held by TAG members.
alex: I agree with Marcos -- and flag myself guilty of not
reporting back often enough
noah: I will say that on >some< things, the painful effort to
work to consensus has taught us all a lot, by forcing us to
listen to what seemed initially outlier opinions.
dan: I'm interested in seeing how we can make our work more
relevant to the Web community. For example, the work on
layering would probably fall into that bucket. i.e., how can we
best connect with the Web dev community
alex: I agree with annevk that that's a great thing to look at
dan: +1 to discussing the work of the sysapps wg installable
apps, etc.
annevk: I'm interested in discussing the work of the sysapps
working group is doing. They are doing installable apps and it
could potentially lead to a walled garden scenario- how does it
work with the web?
dan: +1 +1 +1
alex: agree. I think this has implications for a permissioning
model that nobody wants to bite off yet for various reasons
... plus an install model
annevk: I want to look at how w can be more competitive with
web tech and obliterate walled gardens
dan: I don't think that installable apps are a real risk to the
openness of the web.
... the w3c headlight's "closing the gap" project is also
looking into this. We should probably get Dom to come and speak
to us about that.
anne: (Yeah I don't think they're a threat per se. It's good
they exist. I just think it might be worth looking into ways of
not having them so you don't need centralized/decentralized
stores.)
dan: The whole sysapps/closing the gap thing is a huge
discussion point for the this year. It's going to have changes
in the way that users perceive the web, so we should be
involved in that
marcos: Dan and I are both involved in the headlights project.
The TAG Ambadassador(tm) idea could be used in that context.
noah: we have few technical items for the f2f, apart from the
layering work. We really have a choice in this meeting: we got
what we got and run with it. But if there is technical stuff to
be discussed, we need to get focused and start researching over
the next few weeks.
dan: i think that because of the transition the TAG is going
through, we need to focus on where we are going - and maybe
move more of the technical stuff to the mailing list.
noah: yeah, that was my feeling also for the last f2f, because
of all the next people - allowing people to get settled. The
risk is that we are going to get to October and we are still
going to be trying to get organized.
... that's just my perception
alex: +1, JeniT
JeniT: the only other thing is if there is anyone in London
that we should invite to the meeting?
noah: can anyone think of someone?
dan: what about someone from the open data space?
JeniT: it is likely that the w3c is going to open up new groups
in the open data space. Maybe Phil Archer?
dan: it would be good to have a slot in the agenda for open
data
noah: what about a field trip to odi (Open Data Initiative?)
dan: I'm worried about losing time to have focused discussions.
Maybe we can meet with them after hours?
JeniT: we've done something like that previously
alex: could we perhaps open up a dinner and invite webdevs to
come meet us?
... London has lots of folks who might want to inject some
perspective
anne: we might even be able to host that...
alex: I love the idea of a meetup. +1 to Dan's suggestion!
dan: we could maybe meet with devs at Mozilla
marcos: +1
noah: there is not much else on the agenda for today's call.
JeniT: thank you noah!
anne: thanks!
noah: I'm not hearing a big push to plan more technical stuff.
So the next call will be in 2 weeks. Again, a big welcome to
the new co-chairs! I think the TAG is incredibly lucky. My role
is to support them. Thanks everyone! we are adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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--
Marcos Caceres
Received on Friday, 3 May 2013 14:01:56 UTC