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Minutes from Jan 15, 2009 Telcon

From: ashok malhotra <ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:30:42 -0800
Message-ID: <4970D252.7030908@oracle.com>
To: "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>

Minutes from Jan 15, 2009 Telcon are available at 

A text copy is included below:

                             - DRAFT -

                              TAG Telcon 16 Jan 2009


      [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/15-agenda


          Stuart_Williams, Ashok_Malhotra, Noah_Mendelsohn,
          Jonathan_Rees, Dan_Connolly, David_Orchard, Larry_Masinter,

          Tim_Berners-Lee, Norman_Walsh, Henry_Thompson, T._V._Raman

          Stuart Williams

          Ashok Malhotra


     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene
         2. [5]Approval of Minutes from previous telcon [$1\47]18th Dec
         3. [6]Self Describing Web
         4. [7]ISSUE-36 (siteData-36): Web site metadata improving on
            robots.txt, w3c/p3p and favicon etc.
         5. [8]ISSUE-57 (HttpRedirections-57): The use of HTTP
         6. [9]ISSUE-41 (XMLVersioning-41)
         7. [10]ISSUE-30 (binaryXML-30):
         8. [11]Overdue Actions
         9. [12]WSRA-WG
     * [13]Summary of Action Items

   <Stuart> Scribe: Ashok Malhotra

   <scribe> scribenick: Ashok

1. Convene

   <Stuart> Welcome Larry and John

   <masinter> thanks

   Ashok: Can we discuss the WS-RA WG. Next week or if we have time
   this week?

2. Approval of Minutes from previous telcon [$1\47]18th Dec 2008

   <DanC> +1 [14]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/08-minutes
   2009/01/13 15:15:35

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/08-minutes

   Stuart moves, Ashok seconds to approve minutes from 12/18. Approved
   w/o objection

   Next call Jan 23. DOrchard scribe

   Congratulations to Larry Masinter and John Kemp on election to the

   <Norm> Congratulations!

   <masinter> "Now Ollie, look what you've done."

   <Stuart> :-)

   Stuart: Confirms f2f meeting March 3-5, 2009

3. Self Describing Web

   <masinter> URL of draft finding? I'm looking at issue but don't see

   Noah: Introduces SDW

   <masinter> link in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/51 ?

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/51


     [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2009-01-14.html

   <DanC> yes, 51.

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html

   <DanC> the tracker's not very good at answering "where's the current
   draft on this issue?" unfortunately, Larry

   Noah: Discussion abt use of 'Semantic Web' in SDW


     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Dec/0089.html

   Stuart: I am supportive of Jar's comments
   ... I support the spirit of the change.

   <DanC> (did I hear correctly... roughly 3 for "make the change" 4
   for "no, let's not")

   <DanC> (the 4 includes noah, I think)

   <DanC> (3 = jar, ht, skw; 4 = dan, noah, ?, ?)

   <DanC> (3 = jar, ht, skw; 4 = dan, noah, tim, ?)

   Stuart: If we go with that it leaves us with the status quo

   <DanC> (3 = jar, ht, skw; 4 = dan, noah, tim, daveo)

   Ashok: I also supported the status quo

   <DanC> (I find
   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2009Jan/0034.html )

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2009Jan/0034.html

   <DanC> -1 "add a link to the W3C Semantic Web activity statement"

   <DanC> I concur that the "The goal of the Semantic Web initiative is
   as broad as that of the Web" suffices as a definition

   Stuart: Suggest we ask Jonathan and Noah to work together and handle
   this editorially
   ... Would anyone object to saying Action 207 is done and results in
   no change to the document

   No objection

   <noah> [20]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/211

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/211

   Action 211 on Dan

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 211

   <Stuart> close action-207

   <trackbot> ACTION-207 Try to wordsmith to get rid of 'Semantic Web'
   and submit for review closed

   DanC: Larry, what's current thinking on x-tokens

   <DanC> case in point x-www-urlencoded

   <DanC> yes, that's how x- tokens have been used

   Larry: goal was to lower the bar for registration ... did not work
   out very well

   Dan: I will collaborate with Larry on this

   <masinter> sorry, RFC 4288 section 3.4

     [21] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4288.txt

   Dan: I will find IETF position on x-tokens


     [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2009-01-14.html#standards

   Dan: On squatting, my poster child case is when Google introduced
   .... and there was a standard the next day ... rel="nofollow"

   <DanC> action-211 due 19 Jan 2009

   Dan: I would like that in the draft but not sure abt timing

   Noah: I wd like to invite the TAG to review the document and see if
   their concerns are addressed

   <DanC> I think it s
   nding 6 Accountability and Grounding Information in the Web

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html#grounding

   Noah: This is section 6
   ... I think the issue re. 'libel' are addressed by my rewording

   <DanC> (is a diff-marked copy already done? don't bother to make one
   if not, but there is one, I'd like to look at it)

   <masinter> IMHO, I think TAG findings shouldn't make claims about
   legal standing without review by W3C Legal

   <DanC> ann

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0040.html

   <DanC> ah...

     [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0013.html

   Noah: Explains it's a story not a legal statement

   jar: Can we use something less controversial, like Sen. Smith has
   put his house for sale

   Noah: This may raise other issues

   jar: How abt 'might be useful' instead of 'can be really useful'

   Noah: Is it broken or can we make it better.

   <masinter> Personally, I doubt that the specifications of the Web
   have any relevance or utility at all in proving anything in court

   jar: It still seems a bit like making a legal statement

   <masinter> just IMHO

   <DanC> +1 s/very// (on general strunk-and-white grounds)
   ...jar: 'might be useful'

   <masinter> Some people may think that it might possibly be useful in
   some situations

   Larry: Doubt that legal claims can be made on web content

   <DanC> (was Larry's point about web content or web standards?)

   <masinter> My point was about scope of TAG covering giving legal
   advice or suggestion

   <DanC> close action-208

   <trackbot> ACTION-208 Work on "attribution of libel" concern with
   Stuart closed

   Noah: Suggest 208 as resolved ... remove the word 'very'

   <DanC> (can you just commit it without announcing it?)

   Larry: Even if you remove 'very' it makes me uncomforatble. You use
   the word 'prove'. Perhaps 'signify' or 'indicate'.

   <jar> +1 proving -> establishing

   Noah: Remove 'prove' with 'establish' ?

   <DanC> to wit

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0013.html

   Noah: I sent a draft a week ago. Did I miss anything?

   Dan: I need to check Tim's concerns

   <DanC> (I'm looking for 3-word technical capsules of tim's concerns)

   Noah: Tim made some handwritten comments. I took a picture and I
   have acted on all I could.

   <masinter> (brb)

   <DanC> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item02

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/12/11-minutes.html#item02

   <DanC> "<hst> Client Technology package story for machines parallel
   to Spec chain story for humans"

   Noah: I adopted text from Tim pretty much as is.

   <masinter> (back)

   <DanC> action-209?

   <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/209

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/209

   Dan: Henry can spk for himself

   <DanC> (it's done to my satisfaction; I think ht can speak for
   himself in reply to NM's msg of ... ~8 Jan )

   Stuart: I will ask Henry to review

   <DanC> close action-209

   <trackbot> ACTION-209 Attempt to address critical concerns from end
   of 11 Dec self-describing web discussion closed

   Stuart: Close 209 ... I will prod Henry

   Noah: I have made the 2 changes requested

   <DanC> close action-212

   <trackbot> ACTION-212 Change two good practice notes in sections 5.1
   and 5.2 of Self-describing Web closed

   Noah: states the changes

   <DanC> (oh... we could file those 2 remaining under action-208)

   Stuart: Can we put the question contingent on the changes. Or ask
   someone to do a final review

   Dan: How about doing by email

   Stuart: I will make clear we will put question next week. People who
   have given regrets shd respond by mail.

   <DanC> (there are 2 actions remaining. one on me and one on noah.
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/51 )

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/51

   <DanC> action-208?

   <trackbot> ACTION-208 -- Noah Mendelsohn to make 2 tweaks re
   "attribution of libel" concern from 15 Jan telcon -- due 2009-01-19
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [30]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/208

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/208

4. ISSUE-36 (siteData-36): Web site metadata improving on robots.txt,
w3c/p3p and favicon etc.

   <DanC> (odd; tracker missed the msg; it's not on
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/202 )

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/202

   <DanC> (found ashok's msg:
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0024.html )

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0024.html

   <jar> (Eran's response:
   l )

     [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-talk/2009JanFeb/0007.html

   <DanC> action-202:

     [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Jan/0024.html

   <trackbot> ACTION-202 Review
   [35]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-site-meta-00 notes

     [35] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-site-meta-00

   <jar> [36]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hammer-discovery-00

     [36] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hammer-discovery-00


     [37] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hammer-discovery-00

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask ashok to tell us a story about how
   this site-meta stuff is expected to be used

   Ashok: Explains the story of site-meta draft

   <masinter> suggest asking MNot

   <DanC> please do, masinter

   <DanC> aha! single-sign on... now I know some stories around

   Mnot was copied on my response but did not response

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask if there's more specific problem
   that's expected to drive deployment of this new mechanism

   <noah> FYI: I have just republished the Self-Describing Web draft
   with changes requested today. See:
   5.html or

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2009-01-15.html
     [39] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html

   <noah> New status section says:

   <DanC> close action-208

   <trackbot> ACTION-208 make 2 tweaks re "attribution of libel"
   concern from 15 Jan telcon closed

   <DanC> (a story that starts "oh no; not another password to manage"
   and gets to the site-meta draft would be greatly appreciated, jar)

   Stuart: A note re. the problems that these folks are solving would
   be great!

   <DanC> ACTION-200 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-200 Revise "Uniform Access to Metadata" (needs
   title change) to add XRD use case due date now next week

5. ISSUE-57 (HttpRedirections-57): The use of HTTP Redirection

   <DanC> ACTION-184 due 29 Jan 2009

6. ISSUE-41 (XMLVersioning-41)

   <DanC> ACTION-181 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-181 Update versioning formalism to align with
   terminology in versioning compatibility strategies due date now next

   <DanC> ACTION-165 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-165 Formulate erratum text on versioning for the
   web architecture document due date now next week

   <DanC> ACTION-183 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-183 Incorporate formalism into versioning
   compatibility strategies due date now next week

7. ISSUE-30 (binaryXML-30):

   Noah: It is in my queue

   <DanC> ACTION-176 due 29 Jan 2009

   <trackbot> ACTION-176 send comments on exi w.r.t. evaluation and
   efficiency due date now 29 Jan 2009

   <DanC> "There are 0 overdue actions."

8. Overdue Actions


   Ashok: The WSRA-WG addresses metadata access for services. These use
   Endpoint References

   Stuart: End of Agenda
   ... Thanks to Larry and John for joining us

   Meeting adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

All the best, Ashok
Received on Friday, 16 January 2009 18:37:55 UTC

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