- From: Williams, Stuart (HP Labs, Bristol) <skw@hp.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:34:45 +0000
- To: "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Draft minutes from our meeting of 11th September 2008 are available in plain text below and at: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/09/11-minutes My thanks to our scribe. Best regards Stuart Williams -- Hewlett-Packard Limited registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berks RG12 1HN Registered No: 690597 England =============================================================================== [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - TAG Weekly Telcon 11 Sep 2008 [2]Agenda [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/09/11-agenda See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-tagmem-irc Attendees Present Stuart_Williams, Jonathan_Rees, T.V._Raman, Henry_Thompson, Ashok_Malhotra, Dan_Connolly, Dave_Orchard, Noah_Mendelsohn Regrets Noah, Norm, DaveO(partial) Chair Stuart Williams Scribe Ashok Malhotra Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Convene 2. [6]binaryXML-30 (ISSUE-30) 3. [7]UrnsAndRegistries-50 (ISSUE-50) 4. [8]Self-Describing Web 5. [9]F2F Agenda 6. [10]abbreviatedURI-56 (ISSUE-56) * [11]Summary of Action Items _________________________________________________________ <skw> Scribe: Ashok Malhotra Convene <scribe> scribenick: Ashok No comments on agenda Resolution: Minutes from Sep 4 approved [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-tagmem-minutes [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-tagmem-minutes Next week call a risk. Regets from Tim. Stuart may not be able to make it HT: Use the time to read our documents Cancel next week's meeting <jar> +1 use the time to read Next meeting f2f Raman: If we are serious abt this, all TAG members should read the HTML spec DanC: Please let's finish reading list and Agenda for f2f binaryXML-30 (ISSUE-30) <Zakim> ht, you wanted to acknowledge my EXI actions HT: I will read these on the 'plane and make a recommendation on what we should do DanC: Last, we said tell us how you are better than gzip HT: That's where we are, the ball is bak in our court. SKW: We will discuss this again at our FTF. UrnsAndRegistries-50 (ISSUE-50) <DanC> (though Dec sounds wierd... I thought our request was since Dec) HT: I'm working on a new document. Shd have it ready middle on next week <DanC> close action-167 <trackbot> ACTION-167 S to start a thread on non-DNS authority resolution on www-tag closed DanC: What's happening with XRIs? SKW: Summarizes situation We have not had a formal proposal saying would you be happy with ... SKW: We had a discussion on how the discussion was going <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to check whether skw meant it when he said "prefix", since DNS names go least-significant-first <DanC> does either booth or bradly advocate an actual prefix? <Zakim> ht, you wanted to say there's one thing we will need to chase no matter what <ht> Abstract Identifier document: [13]http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/AbstractIdentifierArchitecture [13] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/AbstractIdentifierArchitecture SKW: That's not the proposal <jar> (Out of order) saying "[14]http://xri.*/*" are XRIS is same as saying "[15]http://*/ark:*" are ARKs ... [14] http://xri.*/* [15] http://*/ark:* <ht> And I think there is _some_ room to argue that both of these are OK, if not ideal Self-Describing Web Noah has incorporated feedback from Norm and SKW: SKW: Norm and I would be supportive of publication <Zakim> ht, you wanted to ask a question ht: In a discussion with a student I realized ... <ht> I believe the following: "FYN works iff every party to the story is a) publically accountable <ht> and b) aware of the dependency of the FYN story on their part of it. <ht> " <DanC> I think you can follow-your-nose into policies and such that aren't world-readable DanC: I would not say 'publically accounatable" HT: The parties have to be publically accountable SKW: The draft does not say this HT: I would like to discuss this SKW: Pl. send comment DanC: I disagree for 3 reasons <DanC> (I ran out after 2) <DanC> (1) need not be world-readable <DanC> (2) the URI for text/plain isn't actually critical path <DanC> ... currently <DanC> (though it's nice that the text/plain full URI is in an RFC) HT: I will send mail on this <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to think about whether RDFa is critical path: if we leave it aside, what's the audience/purpose? and to DanC: How can we finish without RDFa story? ... I'm not sure story holds up SKW: can we document missing link and encourage them to put it in place. <skw> [16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/09/f2fkc-agenda [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/09/f2fkc-agenda F2F Agenda SKW: Talks about the f2f agenda. Thanks Raman for his help DanC: I would like to negotiate the reading list now <DanC> I hear from skw: urnsregs, binaryxml, html*, <DanC> digest of ? SKW: Should read binary XML specs, HTML spec, collected digest of refernces from Raman's thread <DanC> self-describing web draft <DanC> passwords in the clear Self-describing Web, Password in Clear, Versioning <DanC> versioning revision from david Need two readers for Binary XML, HT is one. URNsAndRegistries-50 ... HT writing paper. Due Tuesday. Shd be read by f2f <DanC> * tim's bit HT: We should all have read Tim's paper <skw> also had an explicit request from David for Jar's formal treatment... <ht> s/alll/all/ <DanC> "the document"... one document on versioning? <DanC> DO nominates JAR's formalism DaveO: What is new is Jonathan's formalism. Recommend people read this by f2f <DanC> DO: key chapter is ch5 DaveO: Please review Chapter 5. That is new and is key <DanC> HT nominates SVG and HTML thread from public-html... a dozen messages HT: Read SVG and HTML thread. Read 10 msgs and get a feeling of the context <DanC> TVR 2nds... long thread... read for motivations <DanC> (looks like TVR's agenda input subsumes HT's suggestion to read a thread) TVR: Read HTML spec with a view thru the structuring lens I proposed JR: Is there a document that tells why W3C got involved in html5 <noah> Are you discussing reading list? <jar> [17]http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/AbstractIdentifierArchitecture [17] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/AbstractIdentifierArchitecture <jar> ? DanC: I can point to formal mataerial but that's not what you want <DanC> on mime types... a section of the html spec <DanC> pwinc fri <noah> Friday's OK if short, I think. <DanC> (thanks; I was just gonna ask for irc convirmation) Noah: Are we all supposed to read whole HTML spec? <DanC> nm nominates thread on meeting goals Noah: Please read thread on Tag Soup HT: Norm is not coming to Kansas City <skw> I think that the thread Noah referred to is based at: [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2008Aug/0019.html [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2008Aug/0019.html DanC: I will send mail before EOD after editing agenda page Possible topic GenricResources-53 Content negotiation and Abstract Documents Not on agenda currently. You can lobby me. TVR: Steve said he was pulling in my TPAC proposal abbreviatedURI-56 (ISSUE-56) SKW: Asks abt status of CURIE comments <DanC> (anybody have a summary of the comment? the subject line was a generic "comments on X") Noah: That's for responder to say SKW: Summarizez comments Editorial: Qnames never inted as attribute values. Some discussion on this <DanC> (pls promote that "main substantive comment" to the subject line) SKW: Definition of XML Schema datatype <ht> Please remember that we have already fed back on this point, see [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0 014.html [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0014.html <skw> ? AM: Noah you had a comment on lack of clarity between CURIE and URI where there is ambiguity Noah: I sent this as a personal comment. If no objection, I can add to my note <jar> the whole point of safecurie was so that they can be put in uri contexts <DanC> yes, now that I understand the comment, it seems to miss the point of safecuries <noah> Well, it hijacks the use of [ in everyone's languages. Raman: I'm uncomfotable with this. We need to allow new syntax in old contexts jar: If there was no intention of extensing URI content there would be no SafeCURIEs <jar> RDFa already would violate a prohibition on safecuries. It's too late to prohibit safecuries HT: We should be careful abt distinguishing between CURIE's and SafeCURIES <DanC> <ht> Please remember that we have already fed back on this point, see [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0 014.html [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0014.html HT: We should not go back on that advice TVR: The way Noah phrased it it sets a very high bar for new syntax <jar> Two questions here! (1) CURIEs in URI contexts? (No.) (2) SafeCURIEs in URI contexts? (RDFa requires.) <Zakim> noah, you wanted to say implying safecuries can be used in existing languages where URIs are expected hijacks the use of [ in those languages. Noah: Explains his POV ... I should open my spec to other syntax <jar> relative URIs can start with [, yes? They should make clear that these things are not URis DaveO: Supports Noah. CURIEs cannot be wedged into existing specifiactions <jar> I repeat: There are two questions here! (1) CURIEs in URI contexts? (No.) (2) SafeCURIEs in URI contexts? (RDFa requires.) <DanC> jar, does RDFa use <a href="[safecuri]">? I see deployment problems there. <skw> [21]http://www.w3.org/mid/48B810F4.60807@aptest.com [21] http://www.w3.org/mid/48B810F4.60807@aptest.com DaveO: Must specify how CURIEs and URI are disambiguated <jar> no, but it allows safecuries in other uri contexts, I believe. will check. <DanC> ok. deployment considerations for a/@href are somewhat special TVR: XSLT uses { } is attribute value templates. Use of a special character <jar> ok, URIorSafeCURIE only occurs in attributes that are newly added by RDFa <noah> I did propose text to Shane on 8/29: <noah> <proposed> <noah> CURIEs and safe-CURIEs map to IRIs, but neither a CURIE nor a safe-CURIE <noah> <italic>is</italic> an IRI or URI. Accordingly, CURIEs and safe-CURIEs <noah> MUST NOT be used as values for attributes that are specified to contain <noah> only URIs, IRIs, URI-references, IRI-references, etc. Specifications for <noah> particular attribute values or other content MAY be written to allow <noah> either CURIEs or IRIs (or URIs, etc.). The specifications for such <noah> languages MUST provide rules for disambiguition in situations where the <noah> same string could be interpreted as either a CURIE or an IRI. One way to <noah> do this is to require that all CURIEs be expressed as safe-CURIEs, <noah> implying that all unbracketed strings are to be interpreted as IRIs. <noah> </proposed> TVR: I'm mostly OK with this. <DanC> x:y JAR: I'm bothered by saying "CURIES are not IRIs". There are bstrings that are both. <DanC> noodling... "neither every CURIE nor every safe-CURIE <italic>is</italic> an IRI or URI" Noah: I will put this in a note to the TAG list and people can comment <noah> So, Stuart, what's the next step on the response. SKW: Let's conclude on email. <noah> SKW: Noah to redraft considering Stuart's proposal on intent of qnames and add 8/29 draft text on using CURIEs where URIs expected SKW: DanC, any progress on 171 Dan: No. <DanC> p.s. any hosting issues? <DanC> hmm... decisions decisions... <DanC> collect all preparation materials in one place in the agenda... <DanC> or tuck them under the relevant items? <DanC> I lean toward tucking, so far <DanC> hmm... how to do a crawl-and-zip...? Summary of Action Items [End of minutes] _________________________________________________________ Minutes formatted by David Booth's [22]scribe.perl version 1.128 ([23]CVS log) $Date: 2008/09/15 15:05:41 $ [22] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm [23] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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