- From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:02:22 -0500
- To: www-tag@w3.org
Oops; I forgot to send these out earlier this week...
Hypertext: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/26-minutes
Plain text:
TAG Weekly Telcon 26th March 2007
26 Mar 2007
[2]Agenda
[2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/26-agenda
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
Attendees
Present
Stuart, Ht, Raman, Norm, Rhys, DanC, TimBL, noah, DOrchard
Regrets
Chair
Stuart
Scribe
DanC
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Administrative
2. [6]CURIEs follow up from last week
3. [7]# Issue URNsAndRegistry-50
4. [8]Issue TagSoupIntegration-54
5. [9]Issue IRIEveryWhere-27
6. [10]httpRange-14 editing mechanics
7. [11]IETF liaison something
8. [12]Internet properties
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<scribe> Agenda:
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Mar/0025.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Mar/0025.html
Administrative
<Stuart> scribenick: DanC
RESOLUTION: to approve
[15]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-tagmem-minutes
[15] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-tagmem-minutes
RESOLUTION: to approve
[16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/06-minutes ,
[17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/07-morning-minutes ,
[18]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/07-afternoon-minutes
[16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/06-minutes
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/07-morning-minutes
[18] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/03/07-afternoon-minutes
<timbl> Ac meeting ....
<timbl> ... Internet properties?
PROPOSED: to meet again Mon, 2 Apr
RESOLUTION: to meet again Mon, 2 Apr, TVR to scribe
SKW: note focus next week is XMLVersioning-41 , then
passwordsInTheClear-52 16 Apr
CURIEs follow up from last week
<scribe> ACTION: HST to circulate a candidate description to
tag@w3.org [to frame a distinct topic/issue on CURIE] [CONTINUES]
recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
HT: by way of progress, I have been in communication with the editor
[of the curie spec]
DanC: I prefer www-tag
ht: that might slow me down a bit, but ok
# Issue URNsAndRegistry-50
HT: two things about this document get me stuck:
<ht> [20]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50
[20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50
HT: (1) the parts don't fit together well... the part I wrote and
the part Dave wrote
... (2) reasons people do these myIRI things [?]
... I'm getting conflicting feedback: (a) there are too many little
details (b) it doesn't make the opposition's case credible enough
... we might ask "who is this section for"? it has too much for the
already-convinced, and not enough to convince others
<dorchard> hello
HT: So do we want a simple overview such as this [section 2]
attempted to do? and then: are sections 3 to 5 enough to answer "so,
OK, I'm convinced; what do I do?"
SKW: I just read the document today, and I find section 2 pretty
good, though I have a lot of detailed comments scribbled on it
... I wonder about persistence...
<ht> [21]http://www.cdlib.org/inside/diglib/ark/arkspec.pdf
[21] http://www.cdlib.org/inside/diglib/ark/arkspec.pdf
SKW: do people seek a persistent binding between a URI and a
particular representation? or between a URI and a resource?
<Norm> brb
HT: coming back to this document, I'm a bit more comfortable with
it; I find the ARK paper really helpful, but it's [N] pages of dense
PDF, so we shouldn't be surprised that the few pages of HTML we've
done don't cover everything
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to ask are we closer to the start or the
end on this one?
HT: perhaps citing the ark paper to provide a detailed case study
will do it
NM: I have some detailed comments, but I wonder... is this document
working at a big-picture level? does it facilitate dialog with
people exploring this issue?
HT: I have been re-energised to work on this doc., and provided the
group is happy with the overall thrust, then I'm ready to accept
detailed input
<noah> Recently, however, a number of proposals have emerged to
create new identification mechanisms for the Web. They propose new
URN (sub-)namespaces or URI schemes and provide registries for
instances thereof, in order to allow them to be used to identify and
retrieve information resources. This would appear to be incompatible
with [AWWW]'s simple positive recommendations. In this finding we
enumerate the arguments given in favor of these new proposals, which
ofte
<noah> point the way constructively to alternative designs which do
in fact make use of http: URIs.
<timbl> sentence ike [mised]
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to say that the big picture should be
evident in boxes etc, and to suggest a round-the-table straw-poll
DanC: I'm pretty thumbs-up; time to start polishing
NM: I'm in the middle; I'd like to validate it with more
interactions a la the HCLSIG
+1 gather experimental evidence
NDW: I'm inclined to do a detailed review.
... I mostly like it, as I recall
(Rhys, when did you read it? I'm curious)
Rhys: I mostly like it; I look forward to another draft
<Rhys> on a flight to new york last week
SKW: I remain to be convinced on some points. [missed some?]
<ht> Note that this draft is 8 months old at this time. . .
TimBL: I hope we're close to finished. I don't expect hard-core
developers of naming schemes to be convinced by one document, or
even one conference etc.
<Zakim> timbl, you wanted to answr Staurt's question and to say that
basically this persistence is the msapping from the idntifier to the
abstract resource, where what you get back
TimBL: re persistence, I think the point here is the binding between
a URI and a conceptual thing; the relationship to the
representation(s) is separate; see the generic resources finding
SKW: the question is whether that's what others mean by
"persistence"
ht: I intend to elaborate on persistence of representations as
opposed to identifier/identified
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to point out interested parties
DanC: another interesting audience is people who aren't advocates of
myIRIs, but have been asked to endorse myIRIs and are looking for a
big picture
<timbl> Well, The LSID people did get, and may still be, very bogged
down over the distinction between persistence of the URI->thing
maping and the th persistence of a bit string returned.
DaveO: yes, I have had some comments/discussion with people in that
position
<scribe> ACTION: SKW to send comments on urnsAndRegistries draft
recorded in [22]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
NM: [not sure how to summarize]
Issue TagSoupIntegration-54
<Stuart> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/tag-soup-integration
[23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/tag-soup-integration
TVR: yes, I sent a draft... handed to Dan
->
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/0402.
html Doctypes and the dialects of HTML 5 Daniel Schattenkirchner
(Friday, 23 March)
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/0402.html
DanC: there's a thread in the HTML WG, though I haven't read it; it
seems to be relevant
<timbl>
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/threa
d.html#msg402
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007JanMar/thread.html#msg402
TVR: rather than write this whole thing, I'm inclined to listen to
community discussion and summarie in this document
TimBL: I'm interested to enumerate forms of deviation from XHTML in
HTML documents.
... I'd rather say "missing / in img element", to phrase it in terms
of XHTMl
TVR: I'm not sure that approach is responsive to where the community
is just now
DanC: cases that both HTML and XML communities care about: (a)
logout markup (b) contact and calendar info ... [a few others; darn;
they already leaked out]
NM: the biggest point is centralized vs decentralized extensibility.
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to ask how we generate real value from the
XML story
DanC: is there anything architecural about forms? there's a big
organizational question about forms; does the TAG want to be part of
that organizational equasion?
TVR, NM, Rhys: sorta.
SKW: next steps?
DanC: pause until HTML WG has a ftf meeting, or issues a WD, or
something
TVR: yes, let's wait a bit
Issue IRIEveryWhere-27
DanC: I'm not ready to close the IRIEveryWhere-27 issue; I'd like to
study the axioms more. Plus, I gather there's XMl Core work on "XML
Resource Identifiers" that we should consider before closing this
issue
NDW: in particular, spaces are allowed in href="" attributes, but
not in IRIs.
... the spec for this has lived in the XLink spec; we were going to
factor it out a while ago, but we didn't; now we need to for [xml
base?]
... XML Core is aiming for an RFC on XML Resources Indentifiers
<timbl> %25
<Norm> ty
<ht> (XRI)rock on => (IRI)rock%20on ==> (URI)rock%20on
<Stuart> wrt [26]http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html
[26] http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html
-> [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Feb/0008
IRIEverywhere-27 addressed by XQuery and other recent W3C
Recommendations?
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Feb/0008
<scribe> ACTION: DanC to ask TimBL whether XQuery and XML Namespaces
1.1 address IRIEverywhere to his satisfaction, noting Mappings and
identity in URIs and IRIs. [DONE] [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
<scribe> ACTION: TimBL to clarify
[29]http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html , perhaps by using N3
recorded in [30]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html
[30] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
<ht> The IRI spec ([31]http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt)
specifies the mapping in a very simple way
[31] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt)
<ht> "The mapping is also an identity transformation for URIs
<ht> and is idempotent;
<ht> "
httpRange-14 editing mechanics
Rhys: I've done seme writing; as I'm new, I'm interested in early
feedback
HT: I'm interested to take a look
IETF liaison something
DanC summarizes recent IETF liaison discussion of link relationships
in HTML and in Atom, which is related to our issue 51
(standardizedFieldValues)
Internet properties
TimBL: there has been quite a bit of discussion in the US about
whether, once party A has paid an ISP to connect to the Internet,
and party B has paid an ISP to connect to the Internet, A and B can
then communicate, or whether they might have to do further
negotiation or pay some other party
... MIT doesn't lobby the U.S. government, but laws aside, there are
properties of the Internet that the Web relies on
poll on whether to make this a tag issue and/or discuss at an
upcoming W3C Advisory Committee meeting...
-> [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Mar/0016.html
properties of the Internet as foundation of the Web Tim Berners-Lee
(Wednesday, 7 March)
[32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Mar/0016.html
poll... 0, ~1, 1, 1, -1, ...
<Zakim> timbl, you wanted to note that e.g. the N.A.T. box problem
is anothr example of IP supply
ADJOURN.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: SKW to send comments on urnsAndRegistries draft
recorded in [33]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: TimBL to clarify
[34]http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html , perhaps by using N3
recorded in [35]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[33] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
[34] http://www.w3.org/2003/04/iri.html
[35] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
[PENDING] ACTION: HST to circulate a candidate description to
tag@w3.org [to frame a distinct topic/issue on CURIE] [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[36] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
[DONE] ACTION: DanC to ask TimBL whether XQuery and XML Namespaces
1.1 address IRIEverywhere to his satisfaction, noting Mappings and
identity in URIs and IRIs. [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc]
[37] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/26-tagmem-irc
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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--
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541 0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Friday, 30 March 2007 13:02:39 UTC