- From: Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@dfki.de>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:53:41 +0200
- To: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
- CC: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, www-tag@w3.org
It was Tim Berners-Lee who said at the right time 11.06.2007 19:51 the following words: > > > On 2007-06 -11, at 12:04, Pat Hayes wrote: > >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> John Cowan writes: >>> >>>> Tim Berners-Lee scripsit: >>>> >>>>> When the word Representation is used, I prefer to use it strictly >>>>> for >>>>> the relationship between an information resource such as a page >>>>> about >>>>> a person and the (metadata, bits) pair, and not for the relationship >>>>> between the person described and the (metadata, bits) pair. >>>> >>>> Suit yourself, of course. >>>> >>>> But I prefer to suppose that the (metadata, bits) pair you get when >>>> fetching http://www.heritage.org/images/shakespeare.jpg is not >>>> merely a >>>> representation of that particular JPEG, but also of Shakespeare >>>> himself, >>>> as the publisher of that particular resource must surely have >>>> intended -- >>>> they would scarcely have bothered to publish it if they meant it >>>> to be >>>> just some JPEG rather than a picture of Shakespeare. >>> >>> Stop, you're both right [1]. The (metadata, bits) pair is a >>> representation of the resource. The resource is a depiction (a kind >>> of representation) of Shakespeare. To some extent, 'represents' is >>> transitive >> >> Whaaa??? No, it is NOT transitive. A photograph of a book describing >> a statue of George V is not a representation of George V. >> > > Agreed. But this seems to be a conversation about english words, not > the the web architecture. > One could say, in *english*, that the (bits, metadata) represent a > picture, which represents a person, who represents the House of > Representatives which represents the people of the USA, which > represent the culmination of billions of years of evolution. In each > case the word 'representation' is used in a different way. That is a > distraction. ("what do you mean by 'angel' and 'pin' anyway?") > > >> The basic problem, seems to me, is that y'all (by which I mean the >> TAG mostly) are using words like "represent" far too loosely. > > The TAG uses (I hope) tag:representation only as a relationship > between a tag:InformationResource and a tag:Representation, the latter > being the class of (bits, metadata) pairs. It is not transitive. (I > would say that its range and domain do not even overlap) ok, two questions remain: * whats the namspace tag: -> can we move this to RDF or RDFS namespaces (as it is crucial for the whole semweb architecture) * the next thing would be to sum up our points and hand them over to CG [2] to have this really standardized. once these two things are settled, I would love to see some examples and triples, and especially domain/range/rdfs:comment values for the properties. And we could make use of the normal W3C process, a draft, comments, an editor, etc. For me, many arguments are lost somewhere in the e-mail limbo. best Leo [2]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/ > > When you see people on the www-tag list using words more loosely, they > may be trying to understand the architecture, or suggesting it be > modified, or talking about how systems other than the semantic web > work, do not assume that the use of words is consistent with the > constrained use in the arch document, and later discussions of the > semantic web architecture, try to achieve. > > Tim > > > -- ____________________________________________________ DI Leo Sauermann http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz DFKI GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122 P.O. Box 2080 Fon: +49 631 20575-116 D-67663 Kaiserslautern Fax: +49 631 20575-102 Germany Mail: leo.sauermann@dfki.de Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 ____________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2007 17:54:20 UTC