- From: Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@dfki.de>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:53:41 +0200
- To: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
- CC: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, www-tag@w3.org
It was Tim Berners-Lee who said at the right time 11.06.2007 19:51 the
following words:
>
>
> On 2007-06 -11, at 12:04, Pat Hayes wrote:
>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> John Cowan writes:
>>>
>>>> Tim Berners-Lee scripsit:
>>>>
>>>>> When the word Representation is used, I prefer to use it strictly
>>>>> for
>>>>> the relationship between an information resource such as a page
>>>>> about
>>>>> a person and the (metadata, bits) pair, and not for the relationship
>>>>> between the person described and the (metadata, bits) pair.
>>>>
>>>> Suit yourself, of course.
>>>>
>>>> But I prefer to suppose that the (metadata, bits) pair you get when
>>>> fetching http://www.heritage.org/images/shakespeare.jpg is not
>>>> merely a
>>>> representation of that particular JPEG, but also of Shakespeare
>>>> himself,
>>>> as the publisher of that particular resource must surely have
>>>> intended --
>>>> they would scarcely have bothered to publish it if they meant it
>>>> to be
>>>> just some JPEG rather than a picture of Shakespeare.
>>>
>>> Stop, you're both right [1]. The (metadata, bits) pair is a
>>> representation of the resource. The resource is a depiction (a kind
>>> of representation) of Shakespeare. To some extent, 'represents' is
>>> transitive
>>
>> Whaaa??? No, it is NOT transitive. A photograph of a book describing
>> a statue of George V is not a representation of George V.
>>
>
> Agreed. But this seems to be a conversation about english words, not
> the the web architecture.
> One could say, in *english*, that the (bits, metadata) represent a
> picture, which represents a person, who represents the House of
> Representatives which represents the people of the USA, which
> represent the culmination of billions of years of evolution. In each
> case the word 'representation' is used in a different way. That is a
> distraction. ("what do you mean by 'angel' and 'pin' anyway?")
>
>
>> The basic problem, seems to me, is that y'all (by which I mean the
>> TAG mostly) are using words like "represent" far too loosely.
>
> The TAG uses (I hope) tag:representation only as a relationship
> between a tag:InformationResource and a tag:Representation, the latter
> being the class of (bits, metadata) pairs. It is not transitive. (I
> would say that its range and domain do not even overlap)
ok, two questions remain:
* whats the namspace tag: -> can we move this to RDF or RDFS namespaces
(as it is crucial for the whole semweb architecture)
* the next thing would be to sum up our points and hand them over to CG
[2] to have this really standardized.
once these two things are settled, I would love to see some examples and
triples, and especially domain/range/rdfs:comment values for the properties.
And we could make use of the normal W3C process, a draft, comments, an
editor, etc. For me, many arguments are lost somewhere in the e-mail limbo.
best
Leo
[2]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/
>
> When you see people on the www-tag list using words more loosely, they
> may be trying to understand the architecture, or suggesting it be
> modified, or talking about how systems other than the semantic web
> work, do not assume that the use of words is consistent with the
> constrained use in the arch document, and later discussions of the
> semantic web architecture, try to achieve.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
--
____________________________________________________
DI Leo Sauermann http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer
Kuenstliche Intelligenz DFKI GmbH
Trippstadter Strasse 122
P.O. Box 2080 Fon: +49 631 20575-116
D-67663 Kaiserslautern Fax: +49 631 20575-102
Germany Mail: leo.sauermann@dfki.de
Geschaeftsfuehrung:
Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender)
Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
____________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2007 17:54:20 UTC