- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:58:19 -0800
- To: Mikael Nilsson <mikael@nilsson.name>
- Cc: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com, "Sean B. Palmer" <sean@miscoranda.com>, www-tag@w3.org
>On mån, 2007-12-17 at 17:34 -0800, Pat Hayes wrote: >> >.... I think an RDF graph is not a >> >document, but is an IR. I believe that an RDF graph is pretty completely >> >characterized by a set of triples. >> >> An RDF graph is *defined* to be a set of triples in the normative RDF >> spec, so your belief has some support :-) >> >> > I believe I can, with suitable >> >agreements between sender and receiver about the encoding (as we require >> >for all information transmission), I can transmit those triples with >> >complete fidelity, and a receiver could reproduce them with no loss at >> >all. Q.E.D. >> >> Hmm. You can transmit some textual encoding of the triples in a >> lossless way, yes. But you can't actually transmit the triples >> themselves. > >Well, you're not supposed to send the resource itself, wasn't that the >point? You're supposed to transmit the "essential characteristics" in a >MIME message. > >If RDF/XML fails to be a representation in that sense of an RDF graph, I >must say I'm completely lost. Let's say you set up a resource >http://example.org/myrdf and conneg between application/rdf+xml and >text/n3 (or whatever the MIME type is supposed to be) - what is the >resource? How can you ever serve RDF/XML with 200 Ok? > >Can we please have some clarification here? Im as confused as you are. It seems to me that the whole story about 'information resources' is muddled. I don't know what an "essential characteristic" is. I was just responding to the ideas as best I can. I would prefer to simply say that some HTTP endpoints are considered to be resources, while others are not. The first kind should emit 200 responses, the second kind should not. Never mind trying to characterize in some metaphysical sense exactly what makes something be one of the first kind or not: we will never get this perfectly straight, so why bother trying. We can give some canonical examples, to wit, web pages; but we have to recognize that there can be others, and the category has to be open-ended as technology keeps changing it. However, its easier to find examples of the second kind, viz. any 'resource' which cannot possibly be an HTTP endpoint. Examples include shoes and ships and sealing-wax, and cabbages and kings. And numbers and RDF graphs. So if an URI is intended to denote one of these, and if you GET that URI, you should *not* get back a 200 response. Everything else in the http-range-14 decision follows from that. It also follows that no XML document actually *is* an RDF graph, which I think would also be a helpful fact to recognize. XML is a wonderful thing, but it is ultimately just a bunch of unicode character streams. An RDF graph, a number and other Platonic mathematical entities are all a different kind of thing. Its OK to serve RDF/XML with a 200 provided that we all agree that the URI denotes the RDF/XML, not the graph it is a surface notation for. And what you get back is a webarch:representation of that in exactly the same sense that what you get back from an HTML file is a webarch:representation of that HTML. There is no such thing, I suggest, as a webarch:representation of an RDF graph, just as there is no such thing as one of the number zero or the fourth moon of Jupiter. Pat > >/Mikael > > > > >> Compare sending a numeral in some text, using some >> numerical convention, vs. sending an actual number. Maybe if >> 'lossless' is the sole criterion, then numbers are IRs also, since >> the literal "123"^^xsd:number seems to be an encoding of the number >> one hundred and twenty three with perfect fidelity. But I'm betting >> that this isn't what was originally intended by the IR idea. >> >> Pat >> >> >-- ><mikael@nilsson.name> > >Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Tuesday, 18 December 2007 09:58:42 UTC