- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:50:28 -0500
- To: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
- Cc: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>, Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, www-tag@w3.org
>Dan Connolly wrote: > >> On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 19:01 -0400, noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com wrote: >> > Dan Connolly writes: >> > >> > > I'd be happy to go with the conventions. I find the wikipedia >> > > article pretty nice to start from > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_logic That is rather high in fancy-math-notation. Very little of this is really necessary, and it creates a major expositional barrier for many readers. Quine's book 'the philosophy of logic' is very readable and sets out the main ideas very nicely; but it is, to be fair, an entire book. On the other hand, for me at any rate, reading Quine is a pleasure in itself. > > > >> > Gee, I'm really torn about that. On the one hand, as one >> who's not expert >> > in those areas, I'm very excited to discover that these >> formalisms have >> > been so carefully developed. Not reinventing the wheel seemslike the >> > right approach. >> > >> > Having said that, David Orchard was on the call making the >> case that even >> > my relatively simple efforts to present set theoretic approaches >> > separately from programmatic descriptions like XML Schema >> were a step away >> > from the sort of approachable commonsense explanations that >> our readers >> > will be looking for. The trouble with this view is that 'common-sense explanations' of semantics are almost all plain flat wrong, and in many cases are incoherent when subjected to careful analysis. (For example, any account which says that texts get their meaning by being mapped to *things* called 'meanings', is either wrong or kind of trivial.) So basing anything on them is likely to be a very bad idea, no matter how readable they might seem to be. I concede that there is an expositional barrier to be overcome, but that is not a good argument for putting simplified fictions into what claims to be a technical guide. > Honestly, I find that wikipedia article >> tough going, >> >> yes... it took me about 18 months, somewhere between 1998 and 2003, to >> get it. > >That's a relief. I'm feeling less stupid already! > >> On the other hand, 18 months is not all that long compared to the >> lifetime of the TAG versioning issue > >Agreed. My concern is that, compared to the time most readers want to >spend with a TAG finding, it's a bit on the long side. Seriously, I'd >love to find a way to use whichever existing formalisms as the >underpinning for something good, but only if we can manage to explain it >in commonsense terms that would be of value to the typical finding reader >who's looking for straightforward (if deeply reasonsed) advice on >versioning their Web languages. Well, there are some reasonably accessible accounts. I tried to briefly convey the general idea of 'set-theoretic' (horrible and misleading terminology) semantics, aka model theory, aka Tarskian semantics, using non-mathematical language, in the RDF Semantics document http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#intro and especially http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#interp and the linked glossary entries. But the best way to relate this kind of semantics to operational issues, I suggest, might be through talking about entailment, a *relationship between* texts which is very close to being an operational idea already. A entails B (see http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#entail) if B is true whenever A is. Thought of operationally, A entails B when the meanings of the expressions used in the texts A and B are enough to sanction the operation of deriving B from A: if you have A, you can legitimately infer B; the 'rule' <from A, infer B> is valid, is semantically correct. This seems to easier to grok than the rather rebarbative notion of being true in all interpretations. And it allows generalizations to other kinds of inter-text relationships, perhaps defined by transformations of various kinds (it applies directly to 'rule languages' and things like logic and functional programming), and one can indeed see an interpreter as being a direct implementation of this relationship. So, here are a few of the kinds of relationship between languages and texts that can be defined. Say that a language is a set of texts with an associated semantics, which for our purposes we can simply *define* as an entailment relationship En between texts of a language Ln. Say that L1 *syntactically extends* L2 if every text of L2 is also a text of L1, *semantically extends* it if in addition E1 is a superproperty of E2, i.e. if A E2 B then A E1 B. Expressed more operationally, this means that you can run an E2 interpreter on the E2-syntactic subset of E1, and it will still be *correct* in E1, if possibly weaker than an E1 interpreter. A logical example would be RDFS or OWL extending RDF; a programming example might be E1 being a functional language and E2 being E1 without recursion; and a 'markup' example might be E1 and E2 both being XML entity vocabularies but E1 being larger than E2. In all these cases one can see the idea, that E1 extends E2 by allowing an interpreter to draw more conclusions than E2 is allowed to sanction. And in all these cases, the entailment relation can be directly related to a model-theory style semantic theory in which the extension amounts to having a richer notion of what counts as an interpretation, so that one gets E1 interpretations by imposing extra constraints on E2 interpretations and maybe by also adding some more structure to them. As the language can say more, the worlds it can describe get more complicated, but you can also rule out more of them by saying more stuff. There are all kinds of quite neat notions that are now very easy to define, eg a 'monotonic' language has the property that if A entails B then A+C must entail B also, for any text C, where + indicates some basic kind of 'legal conjoining' operation on texts; and then its easy to see why monotonic languages have the nice tidy properties they have, and also why people often want to have non-monotonic languages in practice. Anyway, just a sketch/suggestion for how to make a start on this stuff without creating tsunamis of horror in the semiotic universe. :-) Pat Hayes > Early returns suggest that I may have as >much as 17.5 months to go before I'm competent to have an intuition as to >whether that's practical using these formalisms. Still, an interesting >challenge. > >-------------------------------------- >Noah Mendelsohn >IBM Corporation >One Rogers Street >Cambridge, MA 02142 >1-617-693-4036 >-------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Monday, 11 September 2006 20:50:45 UTC