- From: Roy T. Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>
- Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:01:00 -0700
- To: W3C TAG <www-tag@w3.org>
Draft minutes of today's TAG teleconference can be found at
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/04-minutes.html
and a text version is below.
Cheers,
Roy T. Fielding <http://roy.gbiv.com/>
Chief Scientist, Day Software <http://www.day.com/>
====================
W3C
- DRAFT -
TAG weekly teleconference
4 Oct 2005
Agenda: <http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/04-agenda.html>
IRC log: <http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc>
Attendees
Present
Norm_Walsh, Dan_Connolly, Vincent_Quint, Roy_Fielding,
Noah_Mendelsohn, Dave_Orchard, Ed_Rice
Regrets
TimBL, Henry
Chair
Vincent Quint
Scribe
Roy Fielding
Contents
* Topics
1. Administrative
2. Issue endPointRefs-47
3. Issue mediaTypeManagement-45
4. Issue xml11Names-46
5. Issue schemeProtocols-49
6. Issue URNsAndRegistries-50
7. circles-and-arrows discussion of versioning at F2F
8. Future F2F meetings
* Summary of Action Items
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<scribe> Scribe: Roy Fielding
<scribe> ScribeNick: Roy
Administrative
VQ: Next week telecon is okay? [yes]
... scribe for next week?
Ed: I'll scribe next week
VQ: and the following week Henry is due to scribe
DC: Please add discussion of F2F diagrams to the agenda
VQ: Okay, added to end of agenda
... Have enough people read the minutes? [no]
... We will defer accepting until next week, so please read them
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to link parts of ftf minutes to meeting page
[recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
Issue endPointRefs-47
<DanC> endPointRefs-47 4 Oct 2005 from Dave O
DO: I disagree with the TAG's rough consensus on 47
<DanC> (so the decision didn't stick. oh well; nice try.)
DO: reasons are that, 1) giving guidance to EPR minters that they
should
use the address field suffers from the problem that the W3C has not
provided sufficient technology for them to do this, 2) [scribe
missed],
... 3) stateful services is more than EPR, such as HTTP cookies as
session
ids, people use them in almost all significant server apps, and
criticizing EPRs without acknowledging that people are creating
stateful
services seems wrong
... TAG could do nothing at all, say there is no issue, and ack that
they
are separate architectures not on the Web
... or TAG could work on stateful services as a separate architecture
... or TAG could work on creating a solution that places these
services on
the Web
<DanC> (ah... we do seem to have a recorded action "David to write
material on state in distributed application design [12 jul 05]")
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note we don't seem to have an issue to
collect
the cookie/state discussions; perhaps we need one
<noah> +1 to Dan's suggestion
DC: I don't think you need to convince us ... our decision was
contingent
on consensus and you seem to disagree, so we should work on a
solution
DO: I worked on a SOAP to HTTP binding that made SOAP resource
addressable
as URIs, so we can work on educational material to improve this
situation.
Should we also press to create technology?
<DanC> (remind me what technology we asked for? I thought we just
asked
for primer text)
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to ask how fast we need to have feedback to
wsa
DO: we may have missed the train
NM: the plan makes a lot of sense, but WSA folks are late in the
process
and if we are going to do this in a finding then we should do so
before
they have completed the process
DO: They are already in CR, so it is perilously close to being too
late
already
<DanC> (double-checking... yup... ws-addressing is at CR as of 17
August
2005)
DO: we could ask for a binding of EPRs to URIs (?)
DC: Have you sketched this out somewhere?
DO: yes, I'll look for link
<dorchard>
http://www.pacificspirit.com/blog/2005/03/01/
wsrest_continued_do_we_need_an_http_transfer_soap_binding_and_simplified
_wsdl
<DanC> (hmm... title doesn't connect to ws-a "WS-REST continued: do
we
need an HTTP Transfer SOAP binding and simplified WSDL?")
<DanC> (ah... but ws-a is in the 1st screenfull)
NM: maybe we could make a fast-track approach to figure out what we
would
like to happen and give a direction, so that we can then decide
whether we
need to coordinate with WSA progress
<dorchard> noah?
VQ: what can we do in the next few weeks? should we get back to this
in
the next telecon?
DO: I could write up something elaborating the issue and potential
solutions
VQ: when?
DO: by next telecon
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to float the idea of inviting the ws-a
chair next
week.
<scribe> ACTION: DO to draft something indicating the issues with
EPR and
potential solutions [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
DO: am working on web services for versioning ... will shuffle that
back
on the pile if EPR is more time critical
<DanC> David to write material on state in distributed application
design
[12 jul 05] [CONTINUES]
<DanC> ACTION: David to write material on state in distributed
application
design [12 jul 05] [CONTINUES] [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
<Ed> Phone is dead.. retrying :(
Issue mediaTypeManagement-45
VQ: just an update
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#mediaTypeManagement-45
DC: this goes all the way back to original media type specs, how to
version PostScript
... I think this is an issue for the CDF wg
NM: I also had an issue with the assumption of octet streams versus
bit
streams in media types
VQ: do you think it would be helpful to check with CDF WG where they
are
on this issue?
DC: hold on.. looking
<DanC> CDF issue 18
<scribe> ACTION: VQ to check with CDF WG to see how they have solved
issue
and if they have more details [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
<DanC> hmm... they have another issue, "Identification, MIME type and
Accept headers" that's still open.
http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/Group/track/issues/33
Issue xml11Names-46
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#xml11Names-46
VQ: checking June 2004 minutes the TAG resolved to move issue to
pending
state
... is this something we need to record in issues list?
DC: Norm handed the ball to XML CG
<scribe> ACTION: Norm to check on current status of issue
xml11Names-46
with XML CG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to report on schema status
NM: Schema WG is also looking at this
... may or may not have coordinated that with XML CG
Issue schemeProtocols-49
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#schemeProtocols-49
VQ: recall NM was not sure it was worth spending more time on
NM: I thought it was an area worth working on when I was new to TAG
... whether and to what extent the URI scheme determined the
protocol and
how that effects the nature of resources in that scheme
... In June I said I wanted to write something new ... spent the
summer
toying with that.
... it is not a rush, it is not clearly broken, let's postpone it
until we
deal with P2P issues and have further discussion on how the
resolution
process should work.
DC: Tim Bray had written something about making RSS a one-click, so
I was
thinking about how we could do that. Perhaps a SUBSCRIBE method is
needed
in general for reloading feeds, web pages, etc.
... would like to find a general statement that says "webcal" and
"feed":
please don't do that
NM: there is an attempt to explain the confusion in the draft
DC: problem is that it is easier to make the misunderstanding
greater than
it is to find a precise description of what is actually in the
architecture
RF: problem is that schemes are not uniform at all in their
prescription
of resource and representation characteristics; writing a simple
description can be misleading because it is the finer subtleties of
the
architecture that make it so extensible.
... HTTP, for example, is at its essence a layer of indirection, and
because of that it is capable of far more than the simplified view of
"here is a sequence of octets"
<noah> Noah has to go...I will be on the call next week. See you
then.
Issue URNsAndRegistries-50
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#URNsAndRegistries-50
DC: as I recall, HT still has the ball on this issue
DC and NW: waiting on Henry to say he is done, please review
<scribe> ACTION: VQ to check with Henry on progress on
URNsAndRegistries-50 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
circles-and-arrows discussion of versioning at F2F
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to say I very much enjoyed the
circles-and-arrows
discussion of versioning, and to ask if maybe it would help to try to
formalize schemeProtocols likewise and to
<DanC> -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/22-diagram1.graffle
<DanC> -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/20-class-uml.png
<DanC> -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/22-diagram1.png
DC: I would like to see more diagrams that can be run though
RDF-style XML
and inferencing engine
DO: I'll look into my tools to see if they can generate XML
<scribe> ACTION: DO to update extensibility finding with the result
of
Edinburgh F2F discussion and related diagrams [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/20-class-uml.violet
<DanC> violet UML diagram tool
<DanC> DanC gets some encouragement to supplement EDI minutes with
diagrams, provided he gets some review, e.g. from henry
DC: will try to provide diagrams for minutes of F2F before next week
Future F2F meetings
VQ: next is Dec 5-6 in Cambridge. We scheduled two more at Edinburgh
with
details available on the TAG website.
<DanC> (what VQ says about meeting schedule is consistent with
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#deliverables Date: 2005/09/30 15:20:22 )
VQ: Ed should check that with his schedule and confirm
ADJOURNED
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to link parts of ftf minutes to meeting page
[recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DO to draft something indicating the issues with EPR
and
potential solutions [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DO to update extensibility finding with the result of
Edinburgh F2F discussion and related diagrams [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to check on current status of issue xml11Names-46
with
XML CG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: VQ to check with CDF WG to see how they have solved
issue
and if they have more details [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: VQ to check with Henry on progress on
URNsAndRegistries-50
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: David to write material on state in distributed
application design [12 jul 05] [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-tagmem-irc]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:02:03 UTC