Re: referendum on httpRange-14

/ Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org> was heard to say:
|> / Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org> was heard to say:
|> [...]
|> | Some of us think that an HTTP "200 OK"
|> | response on a GET or HEAD for some URI means it identifies an
|> | information resource
|> 
|> Yeah, but some people don't think that. There is not consensus on
|> whether or not http://example.com/dog must identify only an
|> information resource. I see no evidence to suggest that any amount of
|> discussion will ever achieve consensus on this point.
|
| It would be easy for everyone to drop the issue if this were a "coin
| flip" decision, where things work pretty much the same either way, and
| anyone who thorougly studies both sides can see that.  But that's not
| the case here.  Here it seems to each side as if the other side is
| merely ignorant of the big picture, and with a bit of education
| they'll come around.

/me shrugs

I stand by my assertion. I've seen no evidence that suggests (to me)
that further discussion will lead to consensus. Some people believe X
because they've thought about it a lot and reached the conclusion that
X is true. Other people believe Y because they've thought about it a
lot and reached the conclusion that Y is true. X and Y are not
compatible. Life is hard.

|> | So from a process perspective, having Information Resource defined
|> | turns httpRange-14 into pretty much a Yes or No question, although I'm
|> 
|> I think httpRange-14 is a yes or no question no matter how you define
|> (or even if you bother to define) information resource. The answer is:
|> the community does not agree on what the answer is.
|
| I dare say the question has never been put to "the community" in a
| coherent way.

Well, it's sure had a lot of discussion in a lot of places.

|   Something like this:
|
|      Try to imagine that each working HTTP URL is the name of some
|      particular conceptual entity.  Some of these entities may be easy
|      to conceptualize, such as a blog or price list, while others may
|      be less obvious.  (What exactly does "http://www.google.com" or
|      "http://www.uroulette.com/visit"[1] name?)
|
|      Remember that web protocols support format and language
|      negotiation, so that from a single URL you may obtain content in
|      different languages and in different formats, depending on your
|      browser settings and capabilities.  And of course content changes
|      over time.
|
|      Now the question: are there any generalization you can make
|      about all such entites?  If so, what are they?  What properties
|      do all such entities have?   Can you think of a good name for
|      this class of entities?
|
|      [1] Visiting this URL results in a redirect to a random other
|      location.

I doubt that question is pointed enough to answer httpRange-14.

| I'm also not sure what the community is.   Maybe the W3C AC Reps would
| be fun place to start.  :-)   Call it a W3C Referendum.   Or maybe we
| could try it as a slashdot quick.   Ha!   How many people would check
| "I'm pretty sure Cowboy Neil is a web page" ?

Yeah, well, I'm not sure what the community is either. Everyone who
reads www-tag and/or xml-dev maybe.

| Seriously, I'm writing this while procrastinating about answering this
| for myself in Ontaria.  I need a tab on which to display information
| about any resource for which dereference worked, and I'm not sure what
| users are going to want to see on that tab.  I'm also not sure what to
| call it (ie what the class name is), but I'm leaning towards "Document".

How about 'Response Headers' :-)

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM / XML Standards Architect / Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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