minutes, 25 September 2025 SVG WG telcon

Meeting minutes from Thursday, September 25 2025: https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-svg-minutes.html

IRC log of svg on 2025-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

05:49:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
05:49:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-svg-irc
05:49:54 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2B
05:49:55 [caribou]
scribe: Nico
05:49:58 [caribou]
scribenick: nzimmermann
05:50:00 [karlcow]
present+ Karl Dubost
05:50:09 [dmangal]
q+
05:50:10 [nzimmermann]
We are discussing two items on the agenda and one PR
05:50:37 [caribou]
present+ Ragvesh, dmangal, krit,Vinay, nzimmermann, caribou
05:51:21 [nzimmermann]
<https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pull/999, Adding resolution of content dependent units used in sizing properties for inner SVG element>
05:51:29 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pull/999
05:51:38 [nzimmermann]
topic: Adding resolution of content dependent units used in sizing properties for inner SVG element
05:52:15 [nzimmermann]
Ragvesh introduces the PR, what the issue is about, what it solves
05:54:01 [nzimmermann]
"The CSS Working Group just discussed [css-sizing-3][css-values-4] Define `width` and `height` CSS values for SVG Elements in a mapping, and agreed to the following: RESOLVED: content dependent units used in width and height for inner SVG elements resolve to SVG's definition of auto"
05:55:07 [nzimmermann]
There is an ambiguity for SVG elements: min-content, max-content, fit-content and calc-size depend on CSS box models
05:55:22 [caribou]
q+
05:55:25 [nzimmermann]
proposal: resolve the into 'auto'
05:56:41 [karlcow]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/geometry.html#Sizing
05:56:58 [nzimmermann]
resolution: SVG WG agrees to resolve context-dependent units to "auto"
05:57:17 [nzimmermann]
only the root SVG element creates a box, not any inner element, so that definition makes most sense within SVG
05:58:25 [nzimmermann]
Dirk explains usually we don't include those resolutions into SVG spec, but usually the information goes into the CSS values & units spec -- if we put it into the SVG spec it cannot be a note, just a comment
05:58:26 [Tav2]
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06:00:00 [caribou]
CSS Values and Units Module Level 4
06:00:07 [caribou]
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-values-4/
06:00:23 [nzimmermann]
We need to update the SVG spec to refer to the latest CSS Values and Units Module Level 4
06:01:04 [nzimmermann]
Proposal from Dirk: if an element does not have an associated CSS box model object, all the "context-dependent" units should resolve to "auto".
06:01:13 [karlcow]
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-sizing-3/#valdef-width-auto
06:01:17 [nzimmermann]
that could go directly go into the CSS Values and Units Module Level 4 spec
06:02:06 [caribou]
the elements min-content, max-content, fit-content and calc-size are not mentioned in Values at all. Only in the box sizing module
06:04:11 [nzimmermann]
question from Carine: where there other proposals rather than auto? no, it was the only one
06:04:25 [caribou]
scribe+
06:04:31 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/1015
06:04:32 [dmangal]
q-
06:04:52 [caribou]
Topic: Testing
06:05:12 [caribou]
Nico: I opened the issue after last week's discussion
06:05:44 [caribou]
... some WPT tests associated to other specs
06:05:59 [caribou]
... there are many interesting things that are not tested yet
06:06:42 [caribou]
... to my knowledge there are tests in browsers
06:07:18 [caribou]
... is there interest to look at those CSS, SVG and HTML tests
06:07:49 [caribou]
Karl: we lack a lot of the tests, some are not in WPT
06:08:10 [caribou]
... definitely YES, we should list what's missing and add them little by little
06:08:34 [caribou]
Dirk: we should collect existing tests from browsers
06:08:49 [caribou]
... add 3D transform tests too.
06:09:35 [caribou]
Nico: It makes sense to have some tests in CSS transforms
06:09:48 [caribou]
... no matter where, we need coverage
06:10:45 [caribou]
Nico: most noticeably, any kind of CSS positioning of objects, untested and maybe unspecified
06:11:19 [caribou]
... e.g. an absolute-position CSS in a foreign object is heavilly broken in webkit
06:11:37 [caribou]
... we can improve by adding the tests in WPT
06:11:41 [karlcow]
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291732
06:11:43 [caribou]
DIrk: agree
06:12:37 [caribou]
... a few tests would be a step in the right direction and other tests will be contributed
06:13:05 [karlcow]
WebKIt Tests not under WPT https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/tree/main/LayoutTests/svg
06:13:13 [caribou]
Nico: static tests for non-browser implementations
06:13:36 [caribou]
Tav: there are already such tests in WPT
06:13:50 [caribou]
... probably not sufficient
06:14:56 [nzimmermann]
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06:15:18 [nzimmermann]
back
06:15:26 [caribou]
scribe-
06:16:01 [nzimmermann]
scribe+
06:16:09 [nzimmermann]
discussing if we should publish another SVG2 draft
06:16:22 [nzimmermann]
Carine mentions we need an up2date editor list
06:16:44 [nzimmermann]
Dirk mentions we haven't had edits in a few years, but it still makes sense to have a "heartbeat" release, to show that we are still working on it
06:17:07 [nzimmermann]
Carine mentions the latest publication was a CR, if we publish something now it should be a working draft
06:17:31 [nzimmermann]
Dirk mentions this is a "step back" -- asking why we should go back to WD
06:17:55 [nzimmermann]
Carine thinks the SVG spec is not in a CR state at the moment (outdated spec links etc)
06:18:11 [nzimmermann]
Dirk says, we should update all the external spec links, bring them up2date etc
06:19:39 [nzimmermann]
Eventually it makes sense to make SVG a live spec, to avoid those states CR/WD... Carine explains it might be possible or going into CR state, but updating specs in that state is not easy (amendments are not easy to deal with)
06:20:59 [nzimmermann]
(hmm, I probably mis-scribed the part regarding the states, I guess that can be post-edited?)
06:21:59 [nzimmermann]
topic: request to have a hybrid call at the TPAC
06:22:17 [nzimmermann]
Dirk created a "breakout session" proposal at w3c GitHub - it requires voting from the members
06:22:18 [caribou]
https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/18
06:22:44 [nzimmermann]
next part is voting for the session, if it gets accepted, we can have a call and breakout session at TPAC
06:27:52 [caribou]
s/old text/new text/
06:30:27 [nzimmermann]
krit: hmpf, I had to rejoin the IRC channel as the connection froze, and now lost the history, so cannot do edits from my first scribing session -- it were only minor typos, no problem there. But above where you asked about the SVG live spec, I mixed up the possible states, can you have a look at those sentences?
06:31:11 [nzimmermann]
what were the two states?
06:31:23 [krit]
sure
06:32:28 [krit]
scribe+
06:33:22 [krit]
s/Carine mentions we need an up2date editor list/Carine mentions we need an specification references/
06:35:01 [nzimmermann]
thanks for taking care!
06:42:32 [krit]
s/Carine explains it might be possible or going into CR state/Carine explains that the new SVG charter allows to choose between REC track and live CR with IPR publications in between/
06:42:49 [krit]
s/(hmm, I probably mis-scribed the part regarding the states, I guess that can be post-edited?)//
06:43:39 [krit]
RRSAgent, make minutes
06:43:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-svg-minutes.html krit
07:22:15 [krit]
RRSAgent, make minutes
07:22:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-svg-minutes.html krit
07:36:04 [krit]
caribou: Having issues with creating the minutes. Getting 403
07:51:32 [caribou]
RRSAgent, make log public
07:51:40 [caribou]
RRSAgent, make minutes
07:51:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-svg-minutes.html caribou
07:52:24 [caribou]
RRSagent, bye
07:52:24 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items