Minutes, 2 October 2025 SVG WG telcon

Minutes from today's telcon are below.

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IRC log of svg on 2025-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

05:25:33 [RRSAgent]
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05:25:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-svg-irc

05:39:51 [Vinay]
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05:43:43 [karlcow]
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05:44:48 [krit]
present+
05:45:23 [krit]
scribe: Dirk Schulze
05:45:44 [krit]
scribenick: krit
05:46:03 [dmangal]
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05:46:20 [Vinay]
present+
05:49:23 [dmangal]
present+
05:49:37 [krit]
topic: [css-sizing-3][css-values-4] Define width and height CSS values for SVG Elements in a mapping
05:49:42 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/12376

05:50:11 [dmangal]
q+
05:50:17 [krit]
dmangal
05:50:38 [krit]
dmangal: Defioning view port related length, with sizing.
05:51:00 [Ragvesh]
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05:51:05 [Ragvesh]
present+
05:51:31 [krit]
dmangal: follow-up on last weeks discussions. CSS length attributes can take sizing like v-min, v-max with resolution depending on viewport. SVG elements do create their own viewbox thow. Which viewbox to use?
05:52:03 [krit]
dmangal: outer SVG elements should use ICB but inner elements use viewbox of SVG eleemtns. So ICB is not clear.
05:52:25 [krit]
dmangal: Viewbox related elements should be aligned to ICB or browser viewbox.
05:52:44 [krit]
dmangal: most browsers do that but got pushback: what happens on an iframe?
05:53:07 [krit]
dmangal: will the viewbox be the viewbox of browser window or iframe?
05:53:24 [krit]
dmangal: other proposals got rejected as well.
05:54:15 [dmangal]
https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#containing-block-details
05:54:17 [krit]
dmangal: For SVG editors it will be the SVG documents width and height
05:54:32 [karlcow]
rrsagent, make logs public
05:54:38 [krit]
krit: What was the proposal on teh Iframe?
05:54:59 [krit]
dmangal: If we resolve the viewbox on browser window, iframe dimensions can be shorter.
05:55:34 [krit]
dmangal: bounds will still be browser window bounds and not iframe
05:55:52 [krit]
Ragvesh: not sure if that would be correct?
05:56:12 [krit]
dmangal: most browsers only resolve ICB with browser windows bounds.
05:56:45 [krit]
krit: lets define what browsers do already?
05:57:35 [krit]
dmangal: people disagreed. We want to add something in the spec that is more "correct". No conclusion what would be correct.
05:57:56 [krit]
karlcow: Not easy to change interop behavior of browsers.
05:58:04 [krit]
karlcow: a change might break existing content
05:58:14 [krit]
karlcow: there is no versioning
05:58:39 [krit]
karlcow: not in favor for a new definition not already implemented in browsers.
05:58:55 [krit]
dmangal: made this experience as well
05:59:52 [krit]
krit: more in favor of defining interop
06:00:38 [krit]
dmangal: CSS is not talking about browser window but ICB we don't have that for inner SVG.
06:01:23 [karlcow]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/coords.html#ViewportSpace

06:01:42 [karlcow]
> The initial viewport's width, must be the value of the width presentation attribute on the outermost svg element, unless the following conditions are met:
06:01:59 [krit]
dmangal: initial proposal was resolving to nearest SVG viewport. Percentage does this already though.
06:02:41 [krit]
dmangal: especially Firefox was opposed because it is doable with percentage already.
06:02:54 [krit]
Ragvesh: nearest viewport makes sense to me
06:03:08 [krit]
dmangal: roots SVG element was one suggestion
06:03:29 [krit]
dmangal: but no consensus there either
06:04:10 [krit]
dmangal: browsers usually use root SVG for ICB today.
06:04:26 [krit]
dmangal: this is common in all 3 browser engines.
06:04:57 [krit]
krit: here again: IMO makes more sense to define the current implemented behavior.
06:05:21 [krit]
dmangal: we still need to define it in a logical way in SVG.
06:06:30 [dmangal]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/12376

06:08:01 [krit]
karlcow: we should open an issue on SVG spec and resolve the correct term in SVG itself and define the terms here.
06:08:51 [krit]
resolution: We resolve units against ICB when available or SVG viewport of outer SVG root element. dmangal will clarify which terms to use with CSS WG.
06:09:07 [krit]
topic: ::selection and other highlights in SVG
06:09:12 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/894

06:09:50 [dmangal]
q-
06:10:00 [krit]
karlcow: Selection of text element with ::selection here you get different behaviors on different browsers
06:10:25 [krit]
karlcow: If you use colour, it doesn't work in SVG
06:10:38 [krit]
karlcow: because we use the fill propoert for filling test.
06:10:42 [krit]
s/test/text/
06:11:21 [krit]
karlcow: color: green does nothing in safari or chrome but with fill: green it shows green in Safari and Chrome and black in Firefox.
06:11:38 [krit]
karlcow: FF seems bizar
06:12:41 [krit]
krit: With currentColor you get the color in fill. If fill is not defined, it should use the initial value. What is it for fill?
06:12:46 [krit]
karlcow: it is black
06:13:39 [karlcow]
::selection {color: green}
06:13:47 [krit]
krit: so then the text should be black. If not specified it should use black (the inital value)
06:14:13 [krit]
karlcow: the exmaple ::selection {color: green} is working on FF
06:14:14 [karlcow]
::selection {fill: green}
06:14:22 [Tav]
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06:14:28 [krit]
karlcow: Chrome and Safari only work with ::selection {fill: green}
06:15:04 [karlcow]
::selection {background-color: gold}
06:15:40 [krit]
karlcow: the intention is to fill the selected text with the specified color. background-color does work even on SVG elements.
06:15:49 [karlcow]
text {color: green}
06:16:03 [karlcow]
text {fill: green}
06:16:41 [krit]
karlcow: So background-color does work even on SVG elkements but color doesn't (in the way as for HTML elements, only via currentColor)
06:17:07 [krit]
Ragvesh: In Chromium, for text, the pseudo element doesn't work (like ::first-letter)
06:17:22 [krit]
Ragvesh: so maybe the behavior in FF is more reasonable?
06:18:09 [krit]
karlcow: but selector is workin in general, it is only the difference for using the fill and color on SVG element. I wonder which one is right?
06:19:02 [krit]
krit: so fill: green would not work in FF?
06:19:16 [krit]
karlcow: no, it is black.
06:19:29 [krit]
krit: what about stroke and stroke-width? Is that working in FF
06:19:33 [krit]
karlcow: didn't try
06:19:46 [karlcow]
https://wpt.fyi/results/css/css-pseudo/svg-text-selection-002.html

06:20:02 [karlcow]
http://wpt.live/css/css-pseudo/svg-text-selection-002.html

06:20:13 [taher]
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06:22:16 [krit]
krit: We should create a test on stroke. My feeling is we should use fill and stroke for SVG text as specified for non-selection behavior. But lets see if FF even supports stroke. If not, it is rather an implementation issue in FF.
06:22:38 [krit]
karlcow: I'll test more and get back
06:23:44 [krit]
dmangal: stroke seems to work on FF and Chrome
06:23:57 [krit]
dmangal: having a test case.
06:24:37 [krit]
resolution: karlcow getting back with more tests and open an issue on Firefox for further discussions. Then get back to SVG WG.
06:25:19 [krit]
topic: references to CSS specs in SVG2
06:25:41 [krit]
Tav: Which specs do we update links to. Do we go to CSS Colors 4 as well?
06:26:31 [krit]
krit: All CSS specs should be update to the latest versions in SVG, not just sizing but colors and others too.
06:27:14 [krit]
Tav: what about CSS gradients as fill/stroke on SVG elements? Would that be supported too? Especially interpolation and color spaces is missing in SVG gradients.
06:29:06 [krit]
resolution: Tav to create a github issue on CSS gradients in fill/stroke. All vendors shall get back to their teams and discuss this.
06:29:44 [krit]
Vinay: Adoption might not be very welcome by browser implementers. Stroke does not work with text decorations in any browser.
06:31:26 [krit]
Vinay: will comment on Tavs github issue with examples
06:31:38 [krit]
RRSAgent, make minutes
06:31:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/10/02-svg-minutes.html krit
06:32:10 [krit]
RRSAgent, make log public