Minutes, 14 May 2015 SVG WG telcon

http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

14 May 2015

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015May/0019.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Thomas_Smailus, [IPcaller], heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi,
          ed, Doug_Schepers, nikos_, [Microsoft], Tav

   Regrets
   Chair
          Cameron

   Scribe
          Tav

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Switching to webex
         2. [6]SVG 2 Issues
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 14 May 2015

   <AmeliaBR> All about Web Ex:
   [8]https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices

      [8] https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices

   <scribe> scribenick: Tav

Switching to webex

   shepazu: Our phone lines die in late June. When do we want to
   transition?

   heycam: Next week?

   shepazu: Not here next week, better week after.

   <AmeliaBR>
   [9]https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices

      [9] https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices

   AmeliaBR: TIps for how to use webex... not connection between
   IRC and phone bots.
   ... can't type in IRC to mute, etc. won't recognize phone
   numbers but should be more reliable

   Smailus: Will we be able to do screen sharing?

   shepazu: It can but isn't considered to be best practices at
   the moment.

   Smailus: Can you send out info so we can get setup? Going
   through firewalls etc...

   shepazu: Can call in or connect through computer. Sound quality
   OK for both.

SVG 2 Issues

   heycam: We are looking at appendices?

   <heycam>
   [10]https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assess
   ment

     [10] https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment

   <Rossen>
   [11]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/svgdom.html#SVGObjectInitializ
   ation

     [11] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/svgdom.html#SVGObjectInitialization

   <scribe> Done

   <Rossen> [12]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue1

     [12] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue1

   Rossen: HTML5 svg documents stop rendering...
   ... Sounds like a bit of rewriting, not really something for
   discussion.

   heycam: We know we need to update error processing so we don't
   blow-up with small errors.

   AmeliaBR: Specific issue are wording. More general question is
   do we want to move to a more forgiving error handling?
   ... Worry about big changes first... wording later.

   Rossen: Whole chapter needs editorial work.

   heycam: This chapter hasn't seen much attention.

   Rossen: Most of the issues just need someone to do them.

   <ed> I don't think this appendix really describes what current
   implementations do in any case, so "requirements"

   heycam: Are you going to look into updating error processing?

   Rossen: Current wording doesn't align with DOM error
   processing.

   heycam: Are you willing to do that?

   Rossen: Yes.

   <Rossen> action - Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing
   appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery

   <trackbot> Error finding '-'. You can review and register
   nicknames at
   <[13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.

     [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users

   <heycam> ACTION: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing
   appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery [recorded
   in [14]http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3791 - Attempt to align error
   processing appendix with dom/css error processing and recovery
   [on Bogdan Brinza - due 2015-05-21].

   <AmeliaBR>
   [15]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue10

     [15] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue10

   heycam: Interested in range-clamping...

   hecam: Does CSS have rules for clamping?

   AmeliaBR: Perhaps wording should be cleaned up. Main thing is
   don't clamp until the end... important for multi-step filter
   processes.

   heycam: Maybe should be moved to filter spec.
   ... Out-of-range values during calculations may be
   implementation dependent.
   ... Not sure what to do with this section (C.4 Clamping...)

   AmeliaBR: Hint, generally, try to preserve information as long
   as possible.

   heycam: This is more about trying to keep in the range....
   doesn't necessarily mean you should fall back to lacuna values.
   ... We should not fallback to lacuna values as suggested in
   wiki.

   Smailus: Does this deal with overflow on coordinates?

   heycam: This is more about color value and compositing.
   ... There are requirements somewhere about precision.

   AmeliaBR: Difference between spec restrictions vs. practical
   limits.

   Rossen: coordinates should be not be clamped...

   Smailus: But we are using very large coordinates.

   heycam: Is that precision vs. range.

   AmeliaBR: We should have precision in this appendix.

   heycam: I think it is in the next appendix.

   Smailus: Precision and range are coupled so they should be
   talked about together.

   <AmeliaBR> Precision section in Ch3:
   [16]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#Precision

     [16] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#Precision

   <Rossen> [17]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/conform.html#issue1

     [17] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/conform.html#issue1

   heycam: We need somewhere to put what is allowed well now that
   the DTD is gone.

   AmeliaBR: What we do is have categories and content models.

   heycam: The blue definition boxes should include which child
   elements are allowed, this was taken from the DTD.

   Rossen: Is the issue about collecting all the information in
   one place?

   heycam: No, more about saying that a conforming document
   matches the blue boxes.

   AmeliaBR: So we can just add a bullet point there saying that.
   ... If anybody wants to compile all the blue boxes into a
   document, that might be a good idea.

   heycam: The scripts could be tweaked to do that. If people
   think it is important, I can do that.

   Rossen: The indices point to the information.

   heycam: It is not to hard for people to find already.
   ... The accessibility appendix, Rich was going to provide a
   rewrite. We'll ask him next time he's on a call.

   <Rossen> [18]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/eltindex.html#issue1

     [18] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/eltindex.html#issue1

   Rossen: Suggest to leave as is... it is not an issue to include
   filter effects etc. here.

   Tav: I strongly agree.

   <AmeliaBR> s/to live/to leave/

   <ed> +1 to keeping the elements that were moved out to other
   specs

   Rossen: Gut feeling that this is useful for developers and not
   users.

   AmeliaBR: People will be looking for things and be puzzled if
   things that were here before are no longer hear.

   heycam: I'll try to come up with something that will call out
   the things defined in other specs.. if it doesn't take too much
   time.

   <Rossen> [19]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/idlindex.html

     [19] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/idlindex.html

   Rossen: Remove appendix?

   heycam: I can move the info.

   <Rossen> [20]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/feature.html

     [20] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/feature.html

   Rossen: Feature strings... everybody just returns 'true'
   ... Webkit code just handles just a couple of strings. You can
   pass bogus feature strings and it returns true.

   AmeliaBR: If we remove this the we remove the idea of having a
   switch based on features.

   Rossen: From browser point of view not so important... but
   non-browsers might require it.
   ... You can do this other ways with browsers, but taking it out
   of the spec could be a bit drastic as other might use it.

   AmeliaBR: Because it hasn't been implement properly.. but for
   static viewers it is important.

   heycam: Why include both parts?

   Tav, for editing purposes. We want to include SVG 2 part but
   still include SVG 1.1 backup.

   AmeliaBR: Currently used to see if foriegnObject supported.
   ... Uses required features as required extension are completely
   useless.

   <Rossen> [21]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html

     [21] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html

   <heycam> heycam: anyone who has a view on what to do with the
   Feature Strings appendix, please send a suggestion to the list
   and we can discuss next week

   <heycam> heycam: let's try to get the "needing investigation"
   issues investigated in time for discussion at the F2F

   Sorry, my Internet connection failed....

   <heycam> heycam: I will send out a link to the F2F Agenda
   proposals page with a reminder

   heycam: Not sure how...

   trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing
   appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery [recorded
   in [22]http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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    $Date: 2015/05/14 21:38:04 $
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     [23] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Found ScribeNick: Tav
Inferring Scribes: Tav
Default Present: Thomas_Smailus, [IPcaller], heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi,
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Present: Thomas_Smailus [IPcaller] heycam AmeliaBR stakagi ed Doug_Schep
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Agenda: [26]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015May/0019.ht
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Found Date: 14 May 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [27]http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: bogdan

     [26] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015May/0019.html
     [27] http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html

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