- From: Fred P. <fprog26@hotmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:22:29 -0400
- To: www-svg@w3.org
For those of us using SVG for developing web applications: - SVG Chat engine via XML-RPC: http://xmlrpc.kollhof.net/jsolait.xmlrpc/chat.svg - SVG Editor - Beta - look and feel: 1) Without JavaScript (for ASV6pr1) http://j2k.sourceforge.net/svg/august8/btn_def19.htm 2) With JavaScript (for ASV3) http://j2k.sourceforge.net/svg/august8/btn_def20.htm - SVG Risk like game: http://www.g-linares.com/navelgas/tg/prototipo/mapa.svg - SVG Electronic simulation: http://jan.kollhof.net/projects/svg/examples/microspatz/microspatz.svg - SVG Fake Desktop: http://jan.kollhof.net/projects/svg/examples/desktop/desk.svg - SVG House Location Database http://www.xfront.org/svgdemo/ - Not mentionning Adobe Sample SVG apps: http://www.adobe.com/svg/demos/main.html Among others. Let say, that I was pretty pleased by DSM Event handlers http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-SVG12-20030715/#dsm and similar UI control, anything that can simplify my scripting life is welcome! =) SVGTimer could be pretty useful. http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-SVG12-20030715/#SVGTimer Network interface would be nice (simple like Perl FTP, IRC, HTTP CPAN modules) http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-SVG12-20030715/#network-data - FTP: http://search.cpan.org/author/GBARR/libnet-1.16/Net/FTP.pm - SFTP: http://search.cpan.org/author/BTROTT/Net-SFTP-0.05/lib/Net/SFTP.pm - RSH: http://search.cpan.org/author/RIIKI/Net-Rsh-0.02/Rsh.pm - SSH: http://search.cpan.org/author/IVAN/Net-SSH-0.07/SSH.pm - SMTP: http://search.cpan.org/author/JHI/perl-5.8.0/lib/Net/SMTP.pm - IRC: http://search.cpan.org/author/JMUHLICH/Net-IRC-0.74/IRC.pm - Telnet: http://search.cpan.org/author/JROGERS/Net-Telnet-3.03/lib/Net/Telnet.pm Maybe a Socket Interface to TCP/UDP sockets? Maybe all this can be done via XML-RPC or SOAP support? There is a question of efficiency. Someone proposed a "push" technology solution for constant broadcasting of networked clients working on a same SVG document: 1) A type some stuff, while B and C watch the changes real-time 2) B delete some stuff, while A and C watch the changes real-time 3) C edit some stuff, while A and B watch the changes real-time Think of this as an advanced chat or netmeeting SVG application on the web for collaborative team work exchange remotely located. Currently, for instance, the Chat application, it mainly use XML-RPC to talk to the server which requires some timer latency or must be updated whenever an event occurs. Now, can we replace the XML-RPC thing to talk to Java or Python or Perl with DSM Event handlers maybe, maybe not!? Will it be efficient? Another thing would be to have standard behaviour for scrollbars, menu, buttons, checkbox, radio buttons, push buttons, label, textbox, muti line textbox, combo box, drop box, list box, multi select box, tab window, button with images, volume like scroll bar, spin button, up/down button, split window button, cooledit toolbar buttons, document view toolbar, status bar, tree folder view, etc. For instance, currently, creating a Microsoft Word similar application using SVG is quite a challenge in EMCAscript, having lines falling at the right place, with proper select, cut, copy, paste, mouse selection, keyboard navigation, pictures insertion (SVG), table insertion (SVG) or SVG animation. For instance let say you have "hello\nworld" your cursor is on 'w' you press the UP arrow key, where does your cursor go? Now you press the DOWN arrow key follow by LEFT arrow key, where does your cursor go? BTW, SVG has no '\n' only multiple <tspan>, so things get a little bit more messy. ;) That kind of stuff. It's difficult to calculate the width and height and to adjust everything in consequence, maybe DSM event handler will fix lots of this messy logic, I hope so! =P For instance, take: http://j2k.sourceforge.net/svg/august8/btn_def19.htm if I want to resize the 'SVG applet', I would need to recalculate all scrollbars, position of buttons, width of background, shadow and stuff like that instead of writting something that depends on the size and location of a window, like I would do in C/C++ or Java. Another thing, copy/paste to and from other application without using "Copy SVG". It's far from being 'transparent'. e.g. Select a picture in Word, do ctrl-c, go to an SVG application in an editable box press ctrl-v and have that picture embedded right there in encoded Base64 format, for instance. To be able to do that kind of logic, transparently, like most people would do in Front Page or Windows application for instance, that would be a big plus for Web apps to have such support for: RTF text (translated into SVG), XHTML formatted text (translated into SVG), Binary Pictures (Base64 encoded), Binary Sounds (Base64 encoded), Animation (translated into SVG and/or Base64 encoded), Multimedia content (translated into SVG and/or Base64 encoded), etc. These are my current concerns: - Having easy-to-program widget and especially extend them for look-and-feel (color, style, size). - Having text to be displayed exactly like XHTML text or even more crazy (currently ASV does not support SVG CSS font that are identical to XHTML CSS font without some tweaking) - Having proper text/object auto-layout in any direction (360 degree) including word-wrap or not (being specified by CSS property) - Having XHTML border CSS attributes. - Having proper printing support, something like this SVG will be printable exactly like a PS or PDF on any machine. (print and print preview facility) - Having proper select/cut/copy/paste that is fully transparent to the user. - Having easy to use customisable events, including form/widget resizing manipulation, auto-layout, etc. Mainly, anything that can be easily done with normal Widgets in Java Swing, C++ Builder, MFC or KDE. That programmers use every day with RAD GUI builder (e.g. VB, JBuilder, C++ Builder ) without thinking "how should I program such behaviour", just use it or drag'n'drop it. For instance, nobody have to program normal CGI forms widget behaviour in XHTML, it just works with simple <input> tags definition. Anything that makes our life simpler, should be simple enough to code and implement. Crazy stuff should be possible, with some reasonable work. As far as I am concern, I see the future of SVG replacing every other currently used format with proper XML namespace extension for metadata to keep them working: PS, PDF, GIF, PNG, XBM, XPM, Flash, Animated GIF, HTML/XHTML, Word/Excel/Visio document, PowerPoint presentation, etc. Already Word/Excel/Powerpoint can be saved in working HTML format, let's go one step further! =) Most of them can already be replaced with SVG 1.1 specs, but some features need too much coding to get it work properly (layout/printing mostly), things should be a bit simplified by adding more abstraction facilities. Sincerely yours, Fred. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Received on Monday, 18 August 2003 09:44:32 UTC