Re: [SMIL30 LC comment] from ITS Working Group ( LC-1827)

Hello Thierry,

thank you for your resolutions.

tmichel@w3.org wrote:
>  Dear Felix Sasaki  ,
>
> The SYMM Working Group has reviewed the comments you sent [1] on the Last
> Call Working Draft [2] of the Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
> (SMIL 3.0) published on 13 Jul 2007. Thank you for having taken the time to
> review the document and to send us comments!
>
> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>
> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at www-smil@w3.org if
> you agree with it or not before 02 nov 2007. In case of disagreement, you
> are requested to provide a specific solution for or a path to a consensus
> with the Working Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will
> be given the opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be
> reviewed by the Director during the transition of this document to the
> next stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>
> Thanks,
>
> For the SYMM Working Group,
> Thierry Michel
> W3C Staff Contact
>
>  1. http://www.w3.org/mid/46DE4D21.5080804@w3.org
>  2. http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/
>
>
> =====
>
> Your comment on Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (SMIL
> 3.0)...:
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> the ITS Working Group would like to make the following last call
>> comment 
>> on SMIL 3.0 [1] .
>>
>> We would like you to adopt ITS 1.0 [2] as the preferred means for the 
>> internationalization and localization of SMIL 3.0 documents.
>> Concretely, 
>> we propose the adoption of
>>
>> 1) an ITS "Translate" rule [3] to separate translatable and 
>> non-translatable content,
>> 2) an ITS "Elements Within Text" rule [4] to describe the flow 
>> characteristics of elements, and
>> 3) an SMIL 3.0 schema which contains ITS 1.0 markup declarations for 1)
>>
>> and 2).
>>
>> No 1) is important information for the localization of SMIL 3.0 
>> documents, e.g. to make the life of translators easier. No 2) is useful
>>
>> e.g. for spell checking tools.
>>
>> The ITS rules file we want to propose for 1) and 2) look like this:
>>
>> <its:rules
>>   xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"
>>   xmlns:s="http://www.w3.org/2007/07/SMIL30/" version="1.0">
>>  <its:translateRule selector="//s:*" translate="no"/>
>>  <its:translateRule selector="//s:smilText | //s:div | //s:p | //s:span
>>
>> | //s:@title" translate="yes"/>
>>  <its:withinTextRule selector="//s:span" withinText="yes"/>
>> </its:rules>
>>
>> ITS rules, see [5], are are a means to express ITS 1.0 information 
>> independent of the target document, without a need to change your (SMIL
>>
>> 3.0) document. They deploy XPath for that purpose, see the "selector" 
>> attributes. The rules are contained in an <its:rules> wrapper element.
>>
>> The first two rules are used to separate translatable and 
>> non-translatable content. They can be read as: the default for elements
>>
>> is that they are not translatable (first <translateRule> element). The 
>>
>> exceptions (translatable elements and attribute content) are handled by
>>
>> the second <translateRule> element, which takes precedence over the 
>> first one. We assume that the translatable elements and attributes in a
>>
>> SMIL 3.0 file are: smilText element [6], div element [7], p element
>> [8], 
>> span element [9] and title attribute [10]. It would be great to get
>> your 
>> feedback on this list.
>>
>> The third rule about "Elements within Text" describes that the <span> 
>> element appears in the flow of other elements, like <smilText>, <p> or
>>
>> <div>. The default for "Elements Within Text" is that elements are not
>>
>> nested.
>>
>> About no. 3): we propose that SMIL 3.0 provides a schema which contains
>>
>> the ITS markup declarations [11]. These markup declarations allow for 
>> specifying a lot of more information related to internationalization
>> and 
>> localization, like localization notes [12] or terminology information 
>> [13]. Possibly, you would not need all markup declarations available at
>>
>> [11]. We would be very willing to adapt the existing ITS markup 
>> declarations to your specific needs, if you agree on the general
>> proposal.
>>
>> Note that we don't propose that a conformant SMIL 3.0 implementation 
>> needs to process 1), 2) or 3). Nevertheless, their availability would
>> be 
>> very valuable for internationalization and localization related tasks,
>>
>> and the world-wide adoption of SMIL 3.0
>>
>> We are looking forward for you feedback. Thank you,
>>
>> Felix
>>
>> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/
>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/
>> [3] 
>>
>>     
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#translatability-implementation
>   
>> [4]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#within-text-implementation
>> [5] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#selection-global
>> [6]
>>
>>     
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-text.html#edef-smilText
>   
>> [7]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-text.html#edef-textDiv
>> [8]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-text.html#edef-textP
>> [9]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-text.html#edef-span
>> [10] 
>>
>>     
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-structure.html#adef-title
>   
>> [11] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#its-schemas
>> [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#locNote-datacat
>> [13] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#terminology
>>     
>
>
> Working Group Resolution (LC-1827):
> ITS WG has sent three proposals:
> (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2007JulSep/0064.html)
>
> First, proposals 1 and 2 are related to ITS rules. These ITS rules may
> concern
> people who do not work directly on single SMIL 3.0 documents, but who need
> to
> express localization related information about SMIL 3.0 *in general*.
>
> Here, the proposal is to associate to a SMIL 3.0 a separate file
> containing the
> ITS rules. These  rules are used to separate translatable and
> non-translatable
> content.
>
> For us, this only means that we accept to adopt ITS 1.0 as the preferred
> means
> for the internationalization and localization of SMIL 3.0 documents. Using
> ITS
> rules will allow ITS-oriented tools to translate and localize SMIL 3.0
> documents.
>
> What we have to decide here is the following: what are the SMIL 3.0
> elements
> (tags and attributes) that may contain textual information that may be
> translated and localized?
>
> ITS WG indicates that these elements may be: smilText element, div
> element, p
> element, span element, and title attribute. As Daniel Weck has suggested
> we
> should also add the alt element
> (http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL3/smil-extended-media-object.html#smilMediaNS-MediaAccessibility-attributes),
> and the abstract element
> (http://www.w3.org/TR/SMIL3/smil-extended-media-object.html#smilMediaNS-MediaDescription).
>   
good suggestions, thank you.
> The response I'm suggesting is the following: We accept to adopt ITS 1.0
> as the
> preferred means for the internationalization and localization of SMIL 3.0
> documents. We acknowledge that, ITS rules are a means to express ITS 1.0
> information independent of the target document, and that there is no need
> to
> change anything on a SMIL 3.0 document. ITS rules, may be defined on a
> optionnal
> separate file but it should be noted that a conformant SMIL 3.0
> implementation
> does not need to perform any process on this file.
>   
I agree with this resolution, thank you.
> The SMIL 3.0 elements related to translation and localization issues are:
> smilText element, div element, p element, span element, title attribute,
> alt
> attribute, and abstract attribute.
>
> Second, the third proposal of ITS WG is to modify the SMIL 3.0 DTD in
> order to
> integrate ITS markup declarations into the SMIL 3.0 DTD. These markup
> declarations allow for specifying a lot of more information related to
> internationalization and localization, like localization notes or
> terminology
> information.
>
> The detailed proposal of the ITS WG is the following (proposal sent by
> Felix Sasaki):
>
> In the SMIL 3.0 DTD (yet to be updated, I checked
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-SMIL3-20070713/smil-DTD.html#smil-attribs-1
> ), you have the following entity:
>
> <!ENTITY % I18n.extra.attrib "" >
> <!ENTITY % I18n.attrib "
>  xml:lang %LanguageCode.datatype; #IMPLIED
>  %I18n.extra.attrib;"
>   
>
> I would propose to change I18n.extra.attrib to
>
> [[
> <!ENTITY % I18n.extra.attrib "%ITS-LOCAL-ATTR;" >
> <!-- ITS-LOCAL-ATTR contains attribute declarations for
> internationalization and localization related markup. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/ for more information. -->
> ]]
>
> ITS-LOCAL-ATTR is a modification of the entity
> att.local.with-ns.attributes, which is taken from the exemplary ITS DTD
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/its.dtd
> The DTD fragment below, which I modified for SMIL 3.0 purposes, contains
> in comments also explanations of the functionality of the ITS markup
> markup. I would think that these explanations are enough information for a
> use case description?
>
> [[
> <!-- Entity for the definition of the ITS namespace, necessary for DTD
> processing -->
> <!ENTITY % ITSNS 'xmlns CDATA "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"
> xmlns:its CDATA "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" '>
>
> <!-- Prefix commonly used for ITS markup -->
> <!ENTITY % ITSPR 'its:' >
>
> <!-- Entity which contains local ITS markup for internationalization and
> localization purposes. Explanatations:
> - its:translate : Attribute to express translation information. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#trans-datacat .
> - its:locNote : Attribute for localization notes. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#locNote-datacat .
> - its:locNoteType: Attribute for the localization note type (description
> or alert). See http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#locNote-datacat
> .
> - its:term : Attribute to specify terms. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#terminology .
> - its:termInfoRef : Attribute to provide references to additional
> information about a term. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#terminology .
> - its:dir : Attribute to supply information about text directionality. See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#directionality .
> -->
> <!ENTITY % ITS-LOCAL-ATTR '
> %ITSPR;translate (yes|no) #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;locNote CDATA #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;locNoteType (alert|description) #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;locNoteRef CDATA #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;termInfoRef CDATA #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;term (yes|no) #IMPLIED
> %ITSPR;dir (ltr|rtl|lro|rlo) #IMPLIED'>
> ]]
>
> Sjoerd Mullender has indicated us the following:
>
> What the modifications seem to do is add the its attributes to all
> elements that already have xml:lang (i.e. all of them).  Since the code
> is provided, it's not difficult to do.  But since I haven't started yet
> with the DTD stuff, I can't say what other impact this may have (it
> doesn't look like it has much).
>
> But adding it to the DTD does have the consequence that SMIL parsers
> (players) will have to deal with the possibility of these attributes
> being present.  It adds a requirement to players to deal with these
> attributes (even if it is to just ignore them).
>
> So, here my suggestion is the following: we accept the proposed
> modification of
> the SMIL 3.0 DTD.
>   
I agree also with this resolution.

Thank you very much!

Felix

Received on Wednesday, 31 October 2007 03:56:20 UTC