- From: Frank Manola <fmanola@acm.org>
- Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:09:11 -0500
- To: Brian Manley <manleyr@telcordia.com>
- CC: www-rdf-interest@w3.org
Brian Manley wrote: > Hi Frank, > > "how do you define a 'non semantic web application'" > > This is a hard question. I think I know a semweb app when I see it, but I'm not sure how to define it. I think ( perhaps naively ) of semweb applications as those that either produce or consume RDF metadata relating to web-accessible resources. RSS aggregators, browsers, etc. fall into this category. On the other hand, a non semweb application doesn't really concern itself with whether or not the resource it's describing is a web-accessible resource or not. It could be a web page about rocks, or an actual, physical rock. > The problem is that it's pretty much the intent that semantic web languages be able to describe things that *aren't* web-accessible resources, so that kind of definition rules a lot of things out. Something more reasonable would be if it were an application that was *using* the RDF (no matter what it described) in some kind of recognizable web context. Agents interacting via web protocols would be an obvious example, but perhaps RDF data that *could* be interchanged on the web (not necessarily immediately) would be another. (Note that internal, non-public webs would also be included in this definition; there are some). > My limited googling and research seems to indicate that the semweb community itself is a bit fuzzy on the question too. True? > I wouldn't be surprised (that is, I'm sure there are people in the community who are quite clear on the question in their own minds, but I don't think there's necessarily a community consensus). A certain fuzziness is, I think, reasonable under the circumstances, but I also think we want "truth in advertizing" so to speak. After all, a simple, but not necessarily helpful, definition of a "business application" would be "an application that's used in business". CIM/XML (the RDF language I mentioned originally) is used in power generation, power generation is a business, ergo RDF is used in business. That's certainly reasonable in a sense, but doesn't really answer the question either. --Frank > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Manola [mailto:fmanola@acm.org] > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:38 PM > To: Brian Manley > Cc: www-rdf-interest@w3.org > Subject: Re: Non SemWeb uses of RDF > > > Hi Brian-- > > Some possibly not very helpful comments: > > I think collecting the information you're after (and keeping that > information updated) would be a useful activity in the context of this > group, since it's the sort of question I've heard a lot (and I imagine > others on the list have too). However, when I've tried to answer this > sort of question in the past, I've always had to ask a couple of > questions myself (just to make sure we're talking the same language), > namely: > > (a) how do you define a "non semantic web application" (or > alternatively, how do you define a "semantic web application")? > > (b) how do you define a "business application"? > > To illustrate why I think those questions are relevant (and it would be > helpful to have some common understanding), Section 6.5 of the RDF > Primer describes an RDF-based language used by the electric power > industry in the US to exchange power system models (for purposes of > managing flow in the electricity grid). I don't know that I'd describe > that as a "semantic web application", since I doubt that any of those > descriptions ever appear on the web (at least I've never found any), > even though it uses RDF, a "semantic web language" (does that make it a > "semantic web application"?). On the other hand, electric power > generation is certainly a business (so are the places where lots of the > bioinformatics work is being applied), but lots of people wouldn't think > of those sorts of "back room" technology applications as being "business > applications" either. As another example, I've also run across an > RDF-based spec to enable the exchange of real estate investment > information (see http://www.dataconsortium.org/index.html), although I > don't know how much these specs are being used. Real estate is > certainly a business, but once again it's not clear this type of > information will necessarily appear on the web, and lots of people > wouldn't think of this kind of "technical" spec as being a "business > application". So what is? General ledger? HR? CRM? > > At the same time, there's clearly lots of activity in practically every > area that anyone would accept as a "business application" in trying to > apply straight XML (some of these groups also define equivalent RDF > Schemas, e.g. some of the OASIS groups in various areas). And I think > that a lot of that information (together with information in relational > databases) will eventually wind up being, in effect, interpreted as RDF > (or, if you prefer, as simple statements about various objects or > resources using something like URIs for disambiguation) when > larger-scale merging of information from those various languages becomes > necessary, whether that information is literally expressed in RDF or > not. When this will happen is, as you'd expect, quite literally a > "business decision", and it depends a lot on the assessment in > individual application domains of when the cost/benefit analysis of > applying these technologies becomes (or at least appears!) favorable. > It isn't going to happen all at once, or at the same rate in all > application areas. > > I look forward myself to seeing other replies. > > --Frank > > Brian Manley wrote: > >>All, >> >>I'm fairly new to RDF, and I'm curious to learn the level to which RDF is being adopted in non semantic web related applications. I find references to its use in bioinformatics, library science, knowledge management and other areas. But what I'm not seeing is much use of RDF in business applications (enterprise or SMB) , consumer-focused applications ( PIMs, personal collection management, etc ) or even systems integration products. >> >>If it is being used, can you site some examples? If it's not being used much outside of the SW movement, why do you think that is? >> >>Any insight would be appreciated. >> >>Regards, >>Brian >> >> >> >> >> > >
Received on Friday, 17 December 2004 23:03:22 UTC