- From: Wolfram Conen <conen@wi-inf.uni-essen.de>
- Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:50:07 +0200
- To: "McBride, Brian" <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
- CC: www-rdf-interest@w3.org
Thanks. That was very interesting. We departed by suggesting some formalisable semantics for RDF SCHEMA (to make it more easily useable for exchangability and extensibility) and the discussion immediately moved towards "preciseness" of RDF M&S specs. So, I have to admit, that starting with an "agreed upon" triple model (assuming its equivalence to the other models) and determining what can be said about its relation to SCHEMA concept semantics, was a little bit "blue-eyed". This email has three brief parts. An [Issues] part mentioning one of the topics that arose in the recent discussion, a [RDF without SCHEMA] part that is a (personal) comment on RDF applicability (including two more personal issues), and a [Answers] part with a brief remarks on one of Brian's last emails. Thanks for giving feedback, Wolfram (I hope that Reinhold shares my opinions, he'll be back from the EC-Web tomorrow, so we'll see ;) --------------------------------------------------------------------- [Issues] [Equivalence]: There are four RDF model "flavours" (formal/data model, graph(ical) model, serialization syntax, triple). To what extend (precisely) are these models (not) equivalent? (Problems related to anonymity have been discussed, see also below, details need to be summarized). Could trying to find transformation grammars be a solution (preciseness, determination of equivalence)? Shouldn't this be in a "formal" part of M&S spec? --------------------------------------------------------------------- [RDF without SCHEMA] Before saying a bit about my motivation to formalize RDF SCHEMA concepts, allow two more personal "issues" that are related to the recent discussion and may be not of general interest: [Anonymity in triples]: The formal model states that "There is a set of resources" etc. Too be complete, the model should also give an alphabet allowing to "identify/create/represent" set members. This would immediately show that there are no "anonymous" resources in the formal model (because any r in the triple definition needs to be something (that is: a piece of text in any "written down" instance of the set theoretic model). What can be introcuded easily, however, would be a NAME (as a property) for a resource (in addition to an identifier, which might be explicit or may follow from document structure). Then, an "anonymous" resource is simply a resource without a name. [RDF API - logic based]: From an RDF API, I would expect a very simple set of possibilities: give me access to an inference engine where I can feed triples in and make queries about (at least) a reasonable set of predicates related to RDF schema constructs (maybe the rules of our paper). Other APIs: what, exactly, do you want to do with your RDF model? Is there anything that can't be done more elegantly in logic? [This neglects the facts that a flat triple can not contain anonyous resources, s. above.] Now, "RDF without Schema" really starts: The wish (or necessity) to have a "Logical Interpretation" arose during Reinhold's effort to apply RDF to Web Engineering. He used RDF schema constructs to define his XWMF model and he observed the necessity to clearly state "which concept means what" to be able to apply the concepts precisely and to define new constructs upon this semantics. As you can see in the paper, we (maybe naively) departed from the formal RDF model (Section5, M&S), also called "the RDF data model". In my initial understanding, the formal model can be immediately expressed with the triple model. So, our assumption was: Fine, we have some flavour of RDF model (graphic/API, Serialization syntax, triples, set theoretic) somewhere which can be transformed "lossless" into a set of triples, so we can (simply) start with the assumption that a "tripleization" is available. With this codification of a model available, the stuff interesting for applying RDF SCHEMA can be done: validation of models against the schema semantics, querying the "schematic intentions" of the model (which properties are allowed for a resource x?, to what classes does x belong?) -- that is: the (schema) relationships among the concepts of the model become transparent. And, IMHO, this is what's needed, if RDF-SCHEMA-based models are exchanged -- a precise definition of the schema concept semantics (you can still interpret the subject-predictae-object "relations" as you like). If this is not available, I can see no point in using RDF SCHEMA concepts for modelling (if the interpretation of the concepts is left to the respective client receiving it (ah, that is your notion of subclassOf, well, that's interesting), a simple XML-vocabulary would do to syntactically define the constructs). And what's left, if the SCHEMA concepts would not be used? Essentially, the notion that "things" (resources/literals) can be related to each other in a 2-ary, "named" relation (so, it becomes a triple) plus a few special "keywords" (subject, predicate, object, statement, bag, alt, seq, _1, ...) that denote some specific intentions which are not always completely integrated into the underlying set/relation theoretic model (details upon request). Couldn't this also be expressed in a minimal XML vocabulary with <statements>,<subjects>,<predicates>,<objects> (adding the possibility to name statements would even reender reification unnecessary, because the precise interpretation/semantics of having a reifying resource and DOING/USING is not given in the model, so giving a statement a name (=promoting it to a resource, which it is anyway, because a statement is given AS TEXT in an XML statement and is thus a PHYSICAL RESOURCE by existence) and using this name in other statements can be interpreted as a reification without any problem (only thing: it't a nested triple now [x, represents, [s,p,o]]). So, if you share my point of view that precise semantics for RDF SCHEMA is important to ensure exchangability/applicability of RDF, you may want to have a look into our paper and say, if you think that the simple rules given there capture the intended semantics of (some of) RDF SCHEMA. I, on the other hand, do agree with Stefan that being also as precise as possible in regards to the issue of equivalence raised above would be a good idea. -------------------------------------------------------------------- [Answers] Much interesting (interesting for me, hopefully also for some others) has been said, here is only a brief answer to one of the topics Brian raised: :How about, if x is the subject of a statement, its a resource, :and if its the object of a statement, and not a literal, then its :a resource. Oh, yes. That is exactly what the rules in the paper say. With the additional "assumption" that anything "named" has an URI (see the first "personal" issues about the "impossibility" of anonymous resources in the triple model). By the way: this assumption is pretty nicely backed by the M&S spec (2.1): "Resources are always named by URIs plus optional anchor ids (see [URI])." uri(S) & uri(P) & obj(O) <- s(S,P,O). res(R) <- uri(R). lit(O) <- obj(O) & -uri(O). :That would deal with anon resources as well. Well, not really. Because it (the resource) needs to be something (a string) to exist (in a "textual" triple model, not in the "modelled" world), so the interpretation "it is named" applies. (With respect to anonymous resources, the flat triple model and, as a consequence, our "logical interpretaion" are incomplete (or would require a convention such as "reserved" names (ideally URI-confrom) for anonymous resources). Thanks again, Wolfram
Received on Wednesday, 6 September 2000 11:39:28 UTC