- From: Al Gilman <Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org>
- Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:54:42 -0500
- To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, david_marston@us.ibm.com
- Cc: www-qa@w3.org, www-qa-wg@w3.org
At 5:39 PM -0600 3 03 2007, Dan Connolly wrote: >On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 00:58 -0500, david_marston@us.ibm.com wrote: >> >A conformance test suite is one that's definitive, no? >> >i.e. if you pass all the tests, then you conform. >> >> Sorry, Dan. The QAWG was resolutely unanimous in the attitude that it >> is impractical to produce a test suite that proves conformance. Some >> drafts of the QA documents included a requirement that the WGs issue >> a statement to the effect that passing all tests in a test suite >> does not prove conformance. > >Ah. good. > >> However, a conformance test suite can prove that an implementation >> does *not* conform, which can be useful. > >Hang on; are you using "conformance test suite" in the conventional >way? Whose convention? <quote cite="http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/ctg/software.htm"> Conformance Test Suite Software Conformance tests capture the technical description of a specification and measure whether a product faithfully implements the specification. The testing provides developers, users, and purchasers, with increased levels of confidence in product quality and increases the probability of successful interoperability. </quote> The result is heightened confidence. A shift in probabilities. I didn't emphasize 'measure,' because I think the text stands on its own. I find nothing in the above statement that implies the question of conformance is reduced to binary by the application of the suite. The initial assumption <quote cite="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa/2007Mar/0004.html"> A conformance test suite is one that's definitive, no? i.e. if you pass all the tests, then you conform. </quote> .. is rash and unsupportable in the real world. In particular, you note <quote cite=ibid> "Conformance testing ... is testing to *determine* whether a system meets some specified standard." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformance_testing Note my emphasis on *determine*. </quote> Yes, the emphasis is yours and it is an over-emphasis. You are reading precision into this use of this term that isn't there in the intent of the author. The use of 'to determine' in this case does not mean that the question at hand or the learning accomplished is binary. Any group of tests where the primary function of the tests in the collection is to shed light on the conformance of an instance to a type-spec can properly be termed a "conformance test suite." It doesn't have to be exhaustive or exact. Al > >> Buyers want to insist that >> the product they are buying must conform to the specs, but they >> should settle for insisting that the product passes all the tests in >> the conformance test suite (subject to permissible variability, and >> a good test suite can be filtered along those lines). The facts >> uncovered by a conformance test suite, incomplete though it may be, > >That's a contradiction in terms. If it's a conformance test >suite, it can't be incomplete. > >> aid in purchasing decisions and other real-world assessment >> activities. >> >> As you discovered in the Test FAQ [1, probably the words of Patrick >> Curran], the term "conformance testing" is defined, and the term >> "conformance test suite" is implied. Despite the futility of >> developing a complete conformance test suite, it is useful to label >> incomplete suites as conformance test suites so that we understand >> their purpose. > >Is that a typo? Or are you really saying that it's useful >to call them conformance test suites, even though they >don't fit the conventional definition of the term? > >> Therefore, suites such as the XML Conformance Test >> Suite are properly labeled. > >No, they're not. > >If W3C uses the term "conformance test suite", buyers >will quite reasonably read the conventional meaning, >which the XML test suite doesn't fulfill. It's not useful >for W3C to go against the conventional usage this way. > >Try something... edit the wikipedia article > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformance_testing >so that it says that the XML test suite is a good >example of a conformance test suite, even though >it's incomplete. See how long the edit lasts. > > >> .................David Marston >> >> [1]http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/2005/01/test-faq >-- >Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/ >D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541 0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Sunday, 4 March 2007 00:55:08 UTC