Re: CC/PP Implementation

No, actually, it is a good question.

My impression was that the gentleman who asked was implementing a browser (there are lots of those apart from Navigator and
Explorer, even for the PC platform!), and if so that is where he ought to start. If someone wants to implement a Mozilla
module, now is your chance to fame. However, I suspect you have to create a vocabulary to describe a PC, and probably a way to
extract data from the Windows registry, which could be an interesting excersise. Assuming that you are running Windows.
Personally, I think the established companies will be really slow to the bat here, and that smaller, nimbler players (e.g. in
the Linux world) will be the ones to take charge. There is a reason for the wide acceptance of CC/PP (UAPROF it is called
there) in the WAP Forum, after all. It does solve their problem of describing wildly varying devices.

The data structure is what is described in the CC/PP draft, which has currently passed Last Call. This is a first step, to be
sure - to be a complete system, you need ways to transport it and ways to handle the heuristics in the adapting device (i.e.
content negotiation). The working group has not discussed the continuation of its work yet, but several voices have been
raised for taking these things on, and it is also my intention, if the Advisory Committee approves.

If you want to experiment, you have to implement what exists, which is the data structrue as drafted and the CC/PP-ex
protocol. Heuristics we have left for implementors, because that might require a rules language.

Johan

Marco Romanini wrote:

> Johan,
>
> I am new to this forum, so please forgive what might be a newbie
> question.  However I see you talking about implementation, but your
> first point is:
>
> > 1. Implement the CC/PP-ex protocol on the client.
>
> We certainly have to do this for prototyping ofthe concept, however
> eventually the likes of Netscape, and IE, and all the mobile browsers
> will have to be the ones to implement these.  Is this not correct.  Now,
> before you answer, I understand that first we prove that this works,
> then we approve the CC/PP standard, and then finally the standard can be
> adopted by the community.
>
> So if my understanding is correct, as indicated in my first statement.
> My real question is, at what point are we in this process, and how long
> do we expect it to take.  I ask because I am really an application
> programmer.  This means that really I am interested in using the CC/PP
> standard, I am even willing to expand my apache servers to deal with the
> standard if that is what it takes, BUT until the client browsers, who
> ever they might be are sending thsi info, then all my work will be
> invane.
>
> I do apologize if this question is premature, or way too early, I am
> just trying to get a feel for when one can realistically expect to be
> able to see "standard" clients send this info to a server.
>
> Marco Romanini
>
> > Re: CC/PP Implementation
> >
> > From: Johan Hjelm, Nippon Ericsson KK (johan.hjelm@era-t.ericsson.se)
> > Date: Tue, Apr 03 2001
> >
> > *Next message: Kazuhiro Kitagawa: "[Moderator Action] Comments on CC/PP Structure and Vocabularies WD 15 March 2001"
> >
> >    * Previous message: Abhinkar, Sameer: "CC/PP Implementation"
> >    * In reply to: Abhinkar, Sameer: "CC/PP Implementation"
> >    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >    * Other mail archives: [this mailing list] [other W3C mailing lists]
> >    * Mail actions: [ respond to this message ] [ mail a new topic ]
> >
> >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message-ID: <003301c0bca1$61c30060$e1d5ec96@nrj.ericsson.se>
> > From: "Johan Hjelm, Nippon Ericsson KK" <johan.hjelm@era-t.ericsson.se>
> > To: "Abhinkar, Sameer" <sameer.abhinkar@intel.com>, <www-mobile@w3c.org>
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:51:25 +0900
> > Subject: Re: CC/PP Implementation
> >
> > Not at all. Those are good questions.
> >
> > The "Implementation guidelines" unfortunately only exists in various states
> > of bits and pieces right now. We have not been able to create the actual
> > document, even though we have had several editors give it a try (I guess
> > they were too busy implementing :-) ).
> >
> > However, on the working group mailing list (which you can access, since you
> > are a member) there are references to implementations by SBC and Keio
> > University. Ericsson has also done an implementation, which is commercially
> > available (so you may be able to learn more from SBC or Keio, depending on
> > how you want to work it).
> >
> > In my view, there are three things you need to do (and a lot of "that
> > depends", as you will see).
> >
> > 1. Implement the CC/PP-ex protocol on the client.
> > 2. Implement the CC/PP-ex protocol on the server
> > Alternative to 1 and 2: Tweak one of the HTTP headers, e.g. user-agent, and
> > use that to transport information. But it will only work for research
> > purposes - as will using POST.
> > 3. Implement a heuristic to select/compose document(s) based on CC/PP on the
> > server. This piece is non-standardized, since it is beyond the scope of the
> > working group. Essentially, I think you have to create an inference based on
> > the profile and some built-in heuristics to select documents. One
> > (minimalistic) way of doing it is to tweak the content negotiation.
> > 4. Run it and tell us if it worked.
> >
> > Now, this is my personal view, and others may have taken different paths.
> >
> > I believe there will also be a number of talks about this at WWW10, which I
> > think will be useful to attend.
> >
> > Johan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Abhinkar, Sameer" <sameer.abhinkar@intel.com>
> > To: <www-mobile@w3c.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:01 AM
> > Subject: CC/PP Implementation
> >
> > > Hello All:
> > >
> > > Don't whether this is a good question to ask on this
> > > list or not..
> > >
> > > I am pretty much new to CC/PP and wanted to know
> > > how to do we go about implementing a CC/PP for a device
> > > and a server. So for the sake of explanation if I am trying to
> > > web surf from a handheld device say IPAQ/Visor/Jornada do I
> > > have to tweak the device supported browser (for e.g. IE) on the
> > > device to support CC/PP and if they are contacting a server which is
> > > running IIS/Apache do I have to tweak the server to handle the
> > > requests to support the CC/PP feature on the server. So, the
> > > gist is I want to start implementing CC/PP what & how should I do?
> > > Is there any documentation for implementation ?
> > >
> > > I believe there is a documentation called 'Implementation
> > > Guidelines' by Johan Hjelm at http://www.w3.org/Mobile/CCPP/
> > > but I couldn't find a way to download that document. Since
> > > it is listed in the 'Deliverable' section of this page is that
> > > supposed to mean that the document is not ready or will come
> > > out in future..?
> > >
> > > Sorry, for some stupid questions but I am pretty new to this.
> > > Excuse my ignorance. I would really appreciate if someone
> > > could get back to me regarding this.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Sameer Abhinkar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    * Next message: Kazuhiro Kitagawa: "[Moderator Action] Comments on CC/PP Structure and Vocabularies WD 15 March 2001"
> >    * Previous message: Abhinkar, Sameer: "CC/PP Implementation"
> >    * In reply to: Abhinkar, Sameer: "CC/PP Implementation"
> >    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >    * Other mail archives: [this mailing list] [other W3C mailing lists]
> >    * Mail actions: [ respond to this message ] [ mail a new topic ]

--
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  Johan Hjelm, Senior Specialist
     Ericsson Research Japan

  Read more about my recent book
http://www.wireless-information.net
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