Minutes: MathML Full Meeting, 28 May, 2024

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Bruce Miller
   - Patrick Ion
   - Murray Sargent

<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-regrets>Regrets

   - Paul Libbrecht

<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-action-items>Action Items
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-2-new-issues->2. New Issues:
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-579-579-only-underscores-_-should-be-used-to-represent-spaces-in-intent-attribute-literal-text-a->#579:
Only underscores ( _ ) should be used to represent spaces in intent
attribute literal text <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/579>

*ACTION:* DC wrote: We looked at this in the WG call just now and basically
we'll accept the comment, the details are a bit involved as concepts and
literals are the same term in the grammar and there are a few references in
the text that assume the behaviors is the same, however it's agreed that
we'll say that literals (i.e. starting with _) are not subject to - space
conversion. There'll be a PR shortly with the exact wording, hopefully in
the next day or so. Specification sections 5.1 and 5.4 will be modified.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-578-578-relationship-between-xml-lang-and-intent-attributes-a->#578:
Relationship between xml:lang and intent attributes
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/578>

*ACTION:* DC will respond to issue #578
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/578>.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-577-577-more-non-english-examples-should-be-added-for-mathml-intent-attribute-a->#577:
More non-English examples should be added for MathML intent attribute
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/577>

*ACTION:* NS will change one of the examples in 5.8 Intent Examples
<https://www.w3.org/TR/mathml4/#mixing_intent_examples> to another language.

*ACTION:* DC will make a PR for issue 576: Privacy Review
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/576>.

Agenda
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

There will not be an intent meeting on June 11 because both NS and DC will
be traveling on that day.

MuS won a lifetime achievement award from Microsoft for accessibility.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-horizontal-review-status-for-cr->Horizontal
review status for CR?

No updates.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1-2-new-issues->2. New Issues:
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-579-579-only-underscores-_-should-be-used-to-represent-spaces-in-intent-attribute-literal-text-a->#579:
Only underscores ( _ ) should be used to represent spaces in intent
attribute literal text <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/579>

NS: He is saying that, for a literal, hyphens should not be replaced by
spaces.

From Deyan Ginev (arXiv) to everyone: - vingt-et-un tiers = "twenty-one
thirds" = 21/3 = 7

   - vingt et untiers = "twenty and one-third" = 20⅓

From Deyan Ginev (arXiv) to everyone: Example text suggestion:

"We recommend using underscores for spaces _ as the hyphen and dot may be
treated as natural language in Intent Literals by AT."

From Deyan Ginev (arXiv) to everyone: one-dimensional object one
dimensional object

*ACTION:* DC wrote: We looked at this in the WG call just now and basically
we'll accept the comment, the details are a bit involved as concepts and
literals are the same term in the grammar and there are a few references in
the text that assume the behavior is the same, however it's agreed that
we'll say that literals (i.e. starting with _) are not subject to - space
conversion. There'll be a PR shortly with the exact wording, hopefully in
the next day or so. Specification sections 5.1 and 5.4 will be modified.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-578-578-relationship-between-xml-lang-and-intent-attributes-a->#578:
Relationship between xml:lang and intent attributes
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/578>

DC: We should say that the AT should be informed about the current language.

*ACTION:* DC will respond to issue #578
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/578>.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1--a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-577-577-more-non-english-examples-should-be-added-for-mathml-intent-attribute-a->#577:
More non-English examples should be added for MathML intent attribute
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/577>

*ACTION:* NS will change one of the examples in 5.8 Intent Examples
<https://www.w3.org/TR/mathml4/#mixing_intent_examples> to another language.

*ACTION:* DC will make a PR for issue 576: Privacy Review
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/576>.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-zoom-intent-meeting-summary-for-5-28-2026>Zoom
Intent Meeting Summary For 5/28/2026 <https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-summary>
Summary

The team discussed three internationalization comments received from a
reviewer regarding handling hyphens in intent names and literals. They
debated whether hyphens should be converted to spaces for screen reader
pronunciation, particularly for French terms where hyphens change meaning
when removed. The group agreed to modify the specification to exclude
hyphens from the conversion rule for literals that begin with underscores,
while keeping the current behavior for concept names. They also addressed
privacy review comments about XML lang attributes and decided to add
non-English language examples to the specification, with Neil taking
responsibility for updating one of the existing examples. The conversation
ended early with congratulations to Murray for winning a Microsoft
accessibility award.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-pr-status-and-new-issues>PR Status and New
Issues

David acknowledged he had not yet completed a promised PR and discussed a
previously approved PR related to math and text content. Neil suggested
David search for "mtext" in the relevant section to locate the examples.
The meeting then moved to discuss new issues, with Neil noting there were
three new issues from the internationalization group.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-intent-specification-hyphen-issue-resolution>Intent
Specification Hyphen Issue Resolution

The team discussed an issue with hyphens in intent specifications,
particularly regarding French language terms where hyphens affect meaning
when converted to spaces. They agreed to modify the specification to
exclude hyphens from being converted to spaces for names that begin with
underscores, treating them as literals. David will respond to the issue,
and they will update sections 5.1 and 5.4 of the specification to reflect
this change.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-language-settings-and-privacy-issues>Language
Settings and Privacy Issues

The team discussed issues 576 and 578 related to language settings and
privacy reviews. They agreed that David would respond to issue 578 with
proposed text and create a PR for issue 576 before the weekend ended. Neil
was assigned to modify an example in section 5.8 by changing the language
to something other than English, such as Russian or Chinese. The team noted
that more non-English examples were already available and decided not to
add additional examples to the spec. They ended the conversation early and
discussed potentially meeting again the following week.