MathML Full meeting minutes: 23 Oct, 2025

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - Bert Bos
   - David Carlisle
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - Murray Sargent

<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-regrets>Regrets
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-action-items>Action Items

Intent Properties: ordering & references Issue #449
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/449>

*CONSENSUS* DC wrote: At the meeting on 2025-10-23 there was unanimous
agreement to close this by merging PR #543
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/pull/543> Noting however that not all
members were at the meeting. The spec is still far from finished. We are
not at CR stage yet so further changes can still be made, but as a new
issue and new PR based on this baseline.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-next-week>Next Week

*ACTION:* NS was considering what we should do next week. We still have a
bunch of changes to put into the spec. We have polyfills to write.

*ACTION:* We need to go over the concept lists and make sure we're all
happy with what's there, nothing missing, doing it also for the Unicode
names.

*ACTION:* DC: I have work on the maligngroup to do.

*ACTION:* PL: will make an issue for finding names for Unicode symbols.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-agenda>Agenda
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-pl-the-a-href-https-developer-mozilla-org-en-us-docs-web-api-sanitizer-sanitizer-api-a-is-now-implemented-in-firefox-nightly-mathml-is-preserved-little-examples-watching-the-result-in-the-inspector->PL:
The Sanitizer API
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Sanitizer> is now
implemented in Firefox Nightly. MathML is preserved! Little examples
watching the result in the inspector:

    h = document.getElementsByTagName("h2")[1]
    h.setHTML(`You've <a href='' onclick='alert("hi")'>just</a>`)
    // the onclick is not found in the inspector
    h.setHTML(`You've <a href='' onclick='alert("hi")'>just</a>
<math><mn>3</mn><mi>x</mi><mphantom><mn>5</mn></mphantom><mo>z</mo></math>`)
    // the math is kept, even the mphantom
    h.setHTML(`You've <a href='' onclick='alert("hi")'>just</a>
<math><mn>3</mn><mi>x</mi><maction><mphantom><mn>5</mn></mphantom></maction></math>`)
    // the maction element and its children are dropped

mphantom is kept, maction is dropped.

onclick is dropped.

NS: The sanitizer running on Firefox preserves MathML.

Demo page: https://sanitizer-api.dev/

PL and NS: Chrome has a sanitizer, but we do not know what it does to
MathML.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-charter-status-6-month-extension>Charter
status -- 6-month extension

NS: Can we get another six-month extension?

BB: We can get a second six-month extension. There is a one-year limit on
extensions.

NS: I hope we will have a CR by the end of the year and that extra
extension should provide enough time to push that to PR.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-dc-and-mus-a-href-https-www-unicode-org-reports-tr25-tr25-13-pdf-unicode-technical-report-25-unicode-support-for-mathematics-a-has-become-active-again->DC
and MuS: Unicode Technical Report #25 UNICODE SUPPORT FOR MATHEMATICS
<https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr25/tr25-13.pdf> has become active again.

DC: Two years ago, we tried to review it, and then it got stalled; but it
is active again now.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-there-is-a-time-change-in-europe-on-sunday-october-26->There
is a time change in Europe on Sunday, October 26.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1-ns-we-will-have-a-core-meeting-on-monday-october-27->NS:
We will have a core meeting on Monday, October 27.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-2-progress-on-spec-writing->2. Progress on
spec-writing? <https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1-3-intent-grammar-change>3.
intent grammar change

Intent Properties: ordering & references Issue #449
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/449>

DC: https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/449#issuecomment-3287836656 has
the example

<mrow intent="$op:infix($x,$y)">
  <mi arg="x">x</mi>
  <msup arg="op" intent="converse:postfix(L)">
    <mi>R</mi>
    <mi>T</mi>
  </msup>
  <mi arg="y">y</mi>
</mrow>

this would be equivalent to

<mrow intent="converse:postfix(L):infix(_x,_y)">
  <mi arg="x">x</mi>
  <msup arg="op" intent="converse:postfix(L)">
    <mi>R</mi>
    <mi>T</mi>
  </msup>
  <mi arg="y">y</mi>
</mrow>

*CONSENSUS* DC wrote:  At the meeting on 2025-10-23 there was unanimous
agreement to close this by merging PR #543
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/pull/543> Noting however that not all
members were at the meeting. The spec is still far from finished. We are
not at CR stage yet so further changes can still be made, but as a new
issue and new PR based on this baseline.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-1-next-week>Next Week

*ACTION:* NS was considering what we should do next week. We still have a
bunch of changes to put into the spec. We have polyfills to write.

*ACTION:* We need to go over the concept lists and make sure we're all
happy with what's there, nothing missing, doing it for the Unicode names.

*ACTION* DC: I have work on the maligngroup to do.

*ACTION* PL: will make an issue for finding names for Unicode symbols.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-zoom-meeting-report>Zoom Meeting Report
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-quick-recap>Quick recap

The team discussed scheduling challenges and documentation findings related
to sanitizer implementation in Chrome. They reviewed and approved several
PRs, including one that simplifies grammar for variable references and
another streamlines intent expression interpretation. The group also
touched on pending spec changes and Unicode Technical Report 25, while
noting concerns about stakeholder engagement and testing implementation.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-next-steps>Next steps

   - David: Add test cases for the intent ordering and references: changes
   to the example intents pages.
   - David: Add a comment in the PR and issues noting that further review
   is possible before CR, then merge the intent ordering PR.
   - David: Address Neil's editorial comments and suggested edits in the PR.
   - David: Review and finalize the draft PR on maligngroup before the next
   meeting.
   - David: Handle the alignment scope removal from Math & All's spec,
   likely in the same PR as maligngroup changes.
   - David: Assign himself to the alignment scope issue.
   - Neil: Review the list of spec changes needed and identify items for
   group discussion.
   - Paul: Create an issue for enriching the Unicode names list.

<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-summary>SummaryPR Updates

Paul reported finding documentation about sanitizer implementation in
Chrome, though its specific impact on MathML is unknown. The main topic was
David's PR for intent ordering and references, which the team needs to
address, particularly since Bruce and Deyan's alternative proposal hasn't
been heard from after two weeks.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-grammar-simplification-for-variable-references>Grammar
Simplification for Variable References

The group discussed a PR that simplifies the grammar for variable
references by allowing properties to be placed after closing brackets,
which was previously syntactically invalid. David explained that the change
makes the grammar more consistent and allows for easier implementation, as
it aligns with how the language is internally interpreted. Moritz raised
concerns about testing the implementation, and Neil suggested adding more
examples to the issue page. Paul questioned whether the complexity of
certain edge cases was worth specifying, and the group agreed that the
simple cases should be clearly defined, while complex cases could be left
for future consideration.
<https://cryptpad.fr/#cp-md-0-intent-expression-proposal-approval>Intent
Expression Proposal Approval

The team discussed and approved David's proposal for interpreting intent
expressions, which simplifies the description of the process by allowing
some additional syntax. They agreed to merge the PR, despite some concerns
about not having heard from key stakeholders like Deyan recently. The group
also briefly touched on other topics, including Unicode Technical Report 25
and some pending spec changes. David mentioned he would work on these
changes in a separate PR.