Minutes: MathML Core meeting 27 Jan, 2025

 Apologies: Louis couldn't make it, so the minutes are up to their normal
standards.
Attendees

   - Brian Kardell
   - Bruce Miller
   - Bert Bos
   - David Carlisle
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Neil Soiffer
   - Paul Libbrecht

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Louis Maher

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-agenda-items>Agenda
Items
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-announcements-updates>
Announcements/Updates

BK: Process for going to CR?

BB: I will look it up and prepare the transition.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-clarify-the-language-around-deprecated-features-of-mathml>Clarify
the language around deprecated features of MathML

#279 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/279>

NS: How does this interact with MathML full? What's the decision criteria?

DG: How about something at level 2 is not deprecated? It could be listed as
experimental.

DC: There are things used outside of the web. If (e.g., mathbackground) is
not put into MathML, then there is nothing to hang the hat on. CSS could
make use of those attrs.

BK: These can be presentational hints. There can be stylesheets that can be
provided. Not sure if they are part of the UA stylesheet.

DC: If those or polyfills aren't provided, then MathML 4 is a waste.

DG: If deprecated from both, then it is deprecated. If in full, but not in
core, then it is confusing.

BK: We should add a conforming section and mark things that are
presentational hints as non-conforming, and hence deprecated even though
they are widely implemented. This is similar to HTML's "font".

Action Item: MathML full to take a look at what should be depecrated or
listed as experimental.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-how-is-inline-stretch-size-constraint-determined->How
is inline stretch size constraint determined?

#270 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/270> (and attached PR... Is
it ready? Open comments..)

BM: the spec doesn't really say where stretchiness applies. It should be
clearer. It would be expected that the mpadded example should work.

NS: What about other situations like mfrac.

DC: Also table element widths/heights.

BK: We should have some codepen examples with the expected stretchiness.

DC: Make this level 2.

BK: TBD on level 2

Action Item: BM to write up codepen examples.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-too-much-space-around>Too
much space around

#260 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/260> (was it closed by #265?
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/pull/265>

Action Item: Closed.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-consider-support-for-the-box-sizing-property>Consider
support for the box-sizing property

#257 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/257>

   - (do we need spec updates?)

DC: I don't feel competent to edit the document because there is no clear
place in the spec and don't know what to say.

Action Item: BK to try and figure out a resolution.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-superscript-consistent-baseline-in-rows->Superscript
consistent baseline in rows.

#255 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/255>

   - it has no replies since, it was opened in August

Action Item: NS to suggest using mmultiscripts. Full has additional attrs
to help.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-accent-rendering-with-mover-accent-true->Accent
rendering with

#254 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/254>

NS: There are two separate things. One is using the accent attr. We had a
discussion over this and Fred was very insistant that it should not pick it
up from the mo, and hence the mover attr must be used. The other issue is
what character to use.

DC: OpenType dictionaries differ on which characters stretch.

NS: It seems wrongs that users need to know what character is stretchy in
what fonts. The font to use is resolved by the browser, so we should say
char XXX is the character to use for a stretchy char and the browser should
figure out what that maps to.

DG: Maybe make the character mapping as level?

DC: It would be really good to be able to use the ASCII char

Action Item: Make which character to use be level 2.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-be-more-explicit-about-how-to-get-a-largeop-glyph>Be
more explicit about how to get a largeop glyph

#253 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/253> (no replies opened in
August)
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-vertical-alignment-of-large-operators>Vertical
alignment of large operators

#250 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/250> (and associated pull
request from Harry #276 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/pull/276>
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0--interop-text-fragments-mathml>[interop]
Text fragments + MathML

#240 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/240> (this was on the
agenda in May but we have no notes)
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.12.0-1#cp-md-0-mathml-support-in-the-html-sanitizer-api>MathML
support in the HTML Sanitizer API

#227 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/227>

BK: the sanitizer by default is "strict". In this mode anything that is a
display hack that hides things is removed. There is a config attr that
allows someone to override this by passing an empty config.

BK: Who is going to use the sanitizer and math? Those that do, they can add
this simple workaround.

BK: There is still a lot more work on the sanitizer. The key is to make
sure MathML is not different/special.

Action Item: Close because we shouldn't try to say MathML is "special" and
is unsafe. There is a workaround via the empty configuration.