Minutes: MathML Full meeting 16 May, 2024

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Bert Bos
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bruce Miller
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Dennis Müller

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.0-15#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Deyan Ginev

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.0-15#cp-md-0-action-items>Action
Items

   -

   How to represent brackets equivalent to \big( and friends #491
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/491> DC: resolved to make no
   change and keep misize+maxsize and closed 491.
   -

   include standardized currencies in core intents#490
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/490> *ACTION* Ns: add this
   question to the issue. we need to know where the symbol signs are because
   it affects speech.
   -

   Permutations#488 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/488> *ACTION* NS:
   add the following two properties "by-column" and "by-row" to the property
   list, then close issue 488.
   -

   Non-math intents #487 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/487> DC: We
   have a process for adding chemical and other non-math concepts: closed 487.
   -

   Intent for "by" (as in 3×4 matrix) #486
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/486> *ACTION* NS: Add the concept
   "dimensional-product".
   -

   Ellipsis #483 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/483> Concepts have
   been added to the core list and DC closed 483.
   -

   mixed-fractions in core #484 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/484>
   DC: The name "mixed-fraction" has been added to the concept list: closed
   484.
   -

   One-letter no-arity intents useful? #480
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/480> *ACTION* NS will open an
   issue to do something about adding speech names to unicode.xml. He will
   then generate a document from Unicode.xml to give guidance to AT authors.
   Close issue 480.

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Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.0-15#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.0-15#cp-md-0-2-issue-discussions-can-some-of-these-be-closed->2.
Issue discussions (can some of these be closed?)

   - How to represent brackets equivalent to \big( and friends #491
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/491> DC: resolved to make no
   change and keep misize+maxsize and closed 491.
   - include standardized currencies in core intents#490
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/490>

PL: There are Unicode names and ISO names. There should be a better way.

NS: Currencies are a little more difficult to deal with than units. You may
say 3 dollars, but you write $3. The Euro sign could be at the beginning,
middle, or end of the money amount.

PL still has questions. leave issue 490 open.

*ACGTION* Ns: add this question to the issue. we need to know where the
symbol signs are because it affects speech.

NS: If you have any currency ideas, please add them as comments.

   - Permutations#488 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/488>

NS Do we need properties to say "read-by-rows" and "read-by-columns"?
Should we add these properties?

NS: DG wanted "row-major" and "column-major".

DC read-by-column and read-by-row.

*ACTION* NS: add the following two properties "by-column" and "by-row" to
the property list, then close issue 488.

   - Non-math intents #487 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/487>

DC: We have a process for adding chemical and other non-math concepts:
closed 487.

   - Intent for "by" (as in 3×4 matrix) #486
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/486>

NS There was some discussion of the literal "by" versus the intent "by" but
previously DG said "by" is not a concept, something I agree with.

BM: "by" is open ended.

BM People can always use the literal "_by" if they wish.

NS: We considered "matrix-dimension".

PL: I think that we agree that "by" will be used in the speech hint.

We decided on using the concept "dimensional-product".

*ACTION* NS: Add the concept "dimensional-product".

   - Ellipsis #483 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/483>

NS: I brought this up, whether we needed to have different names for lower
and midline ellipses and then also what to do about all the other kinds of
ellipses such as the vertical and diagonal ellipses.

NS: I added lower and midline ellipses with names, and I added the vertical
one. Concepts have been added to the core list and DC closed 483.

   - mixed-fractions in core #484 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/484>

DC: The name "mixed-fraction" has been added to the concept list: closed
484.

   - One-letter no-arity intents useful? #480
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/480>

NS: It does not make any sense to use the Unicode names. Can we close this
issue?

PL: The agreement is that we need names, and we use them when necessary.

MuS Once Unicode names are set they are not changed even if they are wrong.

NS: The core concept list was used to give names to symbols.

DC: I think it's more like a recommendation that This Unicode character
data should get read And then we don't have to say what it means. The
speech reader should say something, it should not drop characters.

NS: MathCAT has around 5,000 symbols it names, Which hopefully captures
them all.

NS: List all the Unicode characters that should have names, but we are not
providing names for them.

MuS: Use MathCAT's list.

NS: We can depend on AT to pronounce certain symbols like the Greek letters.

PL: We should add a paragraph saying that we depend upon AT to pronounce
certain symbols.

PL: Are we going to provide an implementation guide for AT authors?

*ACTION* NS will open an issue to do something about adding speech names to
unicode.xml. He will then generate a document from Unicode.xml to give
guidance to AT authors. Close issue 480.