Minutes: MathML Full meeting, 14 March, 2024

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Greg Williams
   - David Carlisle
   - Bert Bos
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Patrick Ion
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Murray Sargent

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Louis Maher
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - David Farmer

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: We have two more weeks of a time-shifted meeting start time where the
people in Europe start one hour earlier.

NS: Paul, David, Moritz, and I wrote an abstract for ICCHP, which is the
big accessibility Conference in Europe, In the second week of July, in
Austria. The abstract is about the intent attribute. The abstract was
accepted. We must still write the paper.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-2-chemistry-discussion-greg-williams-co-chair-w3c-chemistry-community-group-will-join-the-call-for-part-4-of-the-conversation-for-reference->2.
Chemistry discussion. Greg Williams (co-chair W3C Chemistry Community
Group) will join the call for part 4 of the conversation. For reference,

here is the link to the Chemistry CG list
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h-8k_bwQ1bO7gusb0O2DfcEs0DZUAo6QVGYZuVjWVB8/edit#gid=0>

Intent Core Concept List
<https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/>

NS: Deyan's Chemistry list
<https://gist.github.com/dginev/ff7e6e090b79a0389fc2eff2b9961331>

DG: I had found this article useful: The 8 Types of Arrows In Organic
Chemistry Explained
<https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2011/02/09/the-8-types-of-arrows-in-organic-chemistry-explained/>
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-list-of-new-intents>List
Of New Intents

*ACTION* NS: arrow with a delta over it we need to resolve this. Either
label only the delta or label the whole symbol "Delta over reaction arrow"
(Chemistry CG list, row 72).

*ACTION* NS: We did not name the arrows. We need to come back to them.

*ACTION* NS: intents for lowercase rho are partial-pressure and density.

*ACTION* lowercase sigma has Intents of wavenumber and conductivity.

*ACTION* We should have a concept name of amino-acid. GW said that it
should apply for 20 amino acids; however, there are more than 20 acids in
the chemistry CG list starting with row 112. They are: Histidine, His
Arginine, Arg Phenylalanine, Phe Alanine, Ala Cysteine, Cys Glycine, Gly
Glutamine, Gln Glutamic acid, Glu Aspartic acid, Asp Lysine, Lys Leucine,
Leu Methionine, Met Asparagine, Asn Serine, Ser Tyrosine, Tyr Threonine,
Thr Isoleucine, Ile Tryptophan, Trp Proline, Pro Valine, Val
(asparagine/aspartic acid, asx) (glutamine/glutamic acid, glx)

NS: We are not going to have intents for constants.

*ACTION* NS: Give "ppt" the two intents of: parts-per-thousand, or
parts-per-trillion.

*ACTION* NS: intent for mole-fraction
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.7.0-0#cp-md-0-general-discussion>General
Discussion

GW was not part of the committee when this document was drafted. The
committee put down a list of symbols with multiple meanings which needed
explanations.

NS wanted us to skim the Chemistry CG list and see what we had not
addressed.

NS: K sub eq does not need an intent. It is the "equilibrium constant".

GW: Normally it is read as K sub eq. You would only use an intent if you
wanted it to say, "equilibrium constant", and you do not want it to say
"equilibrium constant' much.

NS: Skip K sub eq.

NS: Have we delt with "concentration of'? Yes.

NS: Ethyl (Et), Methyl (Me), Benzyl (Bn), and Phenyl (Ph) are treated using
the "semi-chemical-element" concept.

GW: In discussing side chains: How will these things come over from LaTeX.

NS: We have not thought that far out. We hope the LaTeX translators can
help us. We hope the authors give us hints.

NS: If you were using Mh. Chem. And the MH. Chem. Became intent aware, then
it would know that the equal sign is a double bond, and it should market as
such, you know. Then that would be marked up in the tech, similar to a
chemical element.

GW: We can not specify all the things that people might use as side chains.

NS: Consider all the arrows. Are these things likely to show up in MathML
as opposed to being shown in diagrams which we do not handle?

GW: That is a good question.

NS: Consider dotted arrow right and dotted arrow left. What do they mean?

GW: Has not used dotted arrows.

MuS: Maybe it is not important and not in core.

GW: Did they label the curved arrows?

NS: No.

GW: Generally speaking, your curved arrows are probably not going to turn
up in MathML because they're used for showing the movement of electrons, at
which point I would think you would be out of MathML. You'd be drawing
something.

GW: Consider Delta over reaction arrow. This means to provide heat for this
reaction. It does not say how much heat to provide.

NS: What intent name should it get?

GW: This will be a sub intent. Have the intent of a reaction arrow, and
this will be a subscript to that.

GW: Specifying reaction conditions: You can have many things appearing over
the reaction arrow like h2o.

GW: Have intent equal standard-reaction, then for a modification it would
get an intent of reaction conditions.

NS: How do we speak the over symbol?

GW: You could have an intent for this specific one.

GW: You could have one for the delta. Intent would be heat added.

NS: You could place the intent on the mover in which case you are naming
the entire thing or put it on the delta, and you would be overriding the
word delta with the word heat.

GW: Place it on the mover.

*ACTION* NS: arrow with a delta over it we need to resolve this. Either
label only the delta, or label the whole symbol "Delta over reaction arrow"
(Chemistry CG list, row 72).

*ACTION* NS: We did not name the arrows. We need to come back to them.

DG: From Wikipedia: *ACTION* NS: Give "ppt" the two intents of:
parts-per-thousand, or parts-per-trillion.

*ACTION* NS: intent for mole-fraction

GW: Both p and lowercase rho for partial pressure. Lowercase rho can mean
density.

*ACTION* NS: intents for lowercase rho are partial-pressure and density.

*ACTION* lowercase sigma has Intents of wavenumber and conductivity.

GW: Starting in line 112 of the chemistry GW list, You have a series of
amino acids and their three-letter abbreviations such as Histidine, His.

GW: There is a single-letter identifier for amino acids along with a
three-letter identifier for the acids.

GW: You may have a string of amino acids in a protein and the screen reader
could read the three-letter abbreviations. In the verbose mode, the screen
reader could read the names of the amino acids.

*ACTION* We should have a concept name of amino-acid. GW said that it
should apply for 20 amino acids; however, there are more than 20 acids in
the chemistry CG list starting with row 112. They are: Histidine, His
Arginine, Arg Phenylalanine, Phe Alanine, Ala Cysteine, Cys Glycine, Gly
Glutamine, Gln Glutamic acid, Glu Aspartic acid, Asp Lysine, Lys Leucine,
Leu Methionine, Met Asparagine, Asn Serine, Ser Tyrosine, Tyr Threonine,
Thr Isoleucine, Ile Tryptophan, Trp Proline, Pro Valine, Val
(asparagine/aspartic acid, asx) (glutamine/glutamic acid, glx)

NS: The next group starts with Acetyl, Aryl, and Benzyl (line 156). This is
another group that falls under chemical-elements.

NS: Just pronounce the letters.

NS: What do we do with constants? Do we treat them as letters only? Do we
need to have explanations for the constants?

PL: It depends upon if you are using terse or verbose speech.

NS: Are you going to say F or faraday's constant?

GW: In equations, you will usually read only the letters of constants.

PL: The first time Avogadro's number appears it may be spoken. After that,
its symbol is pronounced.

MuS: Something like Avogadro's number is spoken that way the first time if
the author explicitly marks it up. It is not up to the AT to figure this
out.

NS: We are not going to have intents for constants.

GW: The reader can get the meaning of abbreviations from the context.

Ns: We have gotten through chemistry.

NS: We thank Greg Williams for all his help.

GW: Just let me know if you need me again.

NS: Next week, we will hit units and perhaps consider some of the open
issues.