- From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer@alum.mit.edu>
- Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 13:55:59 -0700
- To: "www-math@w3.org" <www-math@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAESRWkBuvdOmLN_z_o2bXcaQ=hjtjsF5KQsxZ-Zr0tjVgOYC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Attendees: - Neil Soiffer - Louis Maher - David Carlisle - Murray Sargent - Patrick Ion - Bruce Miller - Deyan Ginev - Moritz Schubotz - Paul Libbrecht - Bert Bos <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-regrets> Regrets <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-action-items>Action Items *ACTION* NS should add an issue regarding repeating decimals and missing notations in the MathML 4 spec. <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-2-code-lt-mn-gt-code-and-block-separators-and-decimal-separators-spec-clarification-needed->2. <mn> and block separators and decimal separators(spec clarification needed?) *ACTION* DC: add at least one example to the presentation <mn> section showing a number separated with commas. *ACTION* NS will summarize this discussion and open an issue on what we should do about Content MathML. <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-3-units->3. Units: - Potentially a full list of units with all their prefixes as intent concept names - List of Units (#475) <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/475> (finished, but still updating with feedback) - Deyan’s Physics list <https://gist.github.com/dginev/825078ae316c32c312436f42061b3d05> (finished) - Deyan’s Chemistry list <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#%7B%22cfg%22%3A%7B%22baseUrl%22%3A%22%2Fcode%2F%22%2C%22paths%22%3A%7B%22text%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Frequirejs-plugins%2Flib%2Ftext%22%2C%22json%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Frequirejs-plugins%2Fsrc%2Fjson%22%2C%22optional%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Foptional%2Foptional%22%2C%22jquery%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fjquery%2Fdist%2Fjquery.min%22%2C%22mermaid%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Fmermaid%2Fmermaid.min%22%2C%22json.sortify%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fjson.sortify%2Fdist%2FJSON.sortify%22%2C%22cm%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fcodemirror%22%2C%22tui-code-snippet%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Fcalendar%2Ftui-code-snippet.min%22%2C%22tui-date-picker%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Fcalendar%2Fdate-picker%22%2C%22netflux-client%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fnetflux-websocket%2Fnetflux-client%22%2C%22chainpad-netflux%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fchainpad-netflux%2Fchainpad-netflux%22%2C%22chainpad-listmap%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Fchainpad-listmap%2Fchainpad-listmap%22%2C%22cm-extra%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Fcodemirror-extra-modes%22%2C%22asciidoctor%22%3A%22%2Flib%2Fasciidoctor%2Fasciidoctor.min%22%7D%2C%22map%22%3A%7B%22*%22%3A%7B%22css%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Frequire-css%2Fcss.js%22%2C%22less%22%3A%22%2Fcommon%2FRequireLess.js%22%2C%22%2Fbower_components%2Ftweetnacl%2Fnacl-fast.min.js%22%3A%22%2Fcomponents%2Ftweetnacl%2Fnacl-fast.min.js%22%7D%7D%2C%22waitSeconds%22%3A600%2C%22urlArgs%22%3A%22ver%3D2024.3.1%22%7D%2C%22req%22%3A%5B%22%2Fcommon%2Floading.js%22%5D%2C%22pfx%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fcryptpad.fr%22%2C%22themeOS%22%3A%22light%22%2C%22lang%22%3A%22en%22%2C%22time%22%3A1717620656013%7D> *ACTION* NS will write Greg Williams to ask him whether he has seen C followed by a degree sign versus a degree sign followed by c. DC will ask Joseph the same question. From Deyan Ginev to everyone: SE post on the topic: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/292859 ADD parts-per-million (ppm), parts-per-billion (ppb), parts-per-trillion (ppt), and parts-per- quadrillion (ppq). - Deyan’s Biology List <https://gist.github.com/dginev/d6367f53cb7b1fbed8abfa6bddd4f2c0> ADD: millimeter-of-mercury (mmHg). From Moritz Schubotz to everyone: In Swiss German it is mm Hg - Deyan's Earth Science and Engineering List <https://gist.github.com/dginev/cec6eb44f8c3fdffbffe546448049981> Add atmosphere (atm) *ACTION* NS: Create an issue on what to do about compass directions. Maybe it will be a property or concept. Add potential-of-hydrogen (pH). *ACTION* NS: next step take the units list and move it into the core property list. <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-agenda> Agenda <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1. Announcements/Updates/Progress reports NS: We will not have an Intent meeting at TPAC this year. NS: There was some discussion on repeating decimals, and notations for that. In the elementary math section, we did leave out one of the notations, which is a sort of an over-parenthesis, which is an arc over the repeating numbers. *ACTION* NS should add an issue regarding repeating decimals and missing notations in the MathML 4 spec. NS: We agree that the AT should name all the math-related Unicode characters. It should not give just the Unicode number for a symbol, and it should not fail to mention a Unicode symbol. DC keeps a unicode.xml file for Unicode symbols. MuS also has such a list. NS put the math Unicode symbols from DC and MuS's lists that were not in MathCAT into MathCAT' s list. NS would then give DC the full MathCAT math Unicode list which would go back into the Unicode.xml file. DC was unable to process some of the Unicode symbols. NS and DC will take this offline. PL: Is the intent value supposed to be semantic? DG: The confusion comes from what semantic means. NS: Do we say that intent is not meant to be semantic? DC: The spec already says that. DC: What we say is that intent is the mapping of a concept to speech or Braille. NS: We could add a sentence to the content section repeating DC's sentence from the intent chapter. <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-1-2-code-lt-mn-gt-code-and-block-separators-and-decimal-separators-spec-clarification-needed->2. <mn> and block separators and decimal separators(spec clarification needed?) NS: We should add examples on how to write repeating decimals to the MathML 4 spec. DC: We could add examples with commas and other punctuation examples. MathML 3 had many examples, and we eliminated the examples in spec 4. NS: The examples in MathML 3 do not have commas. We have hex and roman numbers. We should add a couple of other numbers. We should put these examples back into MathML 4 and add comma examples. NS: If you come across a paper that has comma decimal separators, and you produce Content MathML, what do you do? NS: Do you just ignore the fact that numbers are represented differently? BM: It's not an area that we've actually addressed. There should be comments that tell the user What your decimal separator is. BM: And so, then you would have a number followed by punctuation followed by a number and then it gets carried through whatever the parsing and conversion process is. From Patrick D F Ion to everyone: Change ‘Decimal point’ to ‘Decimal marker’? From Patrick D F Ion to everyone: 1,234 is a fine example of the problem. NS: David tells me TeX has a way to do this comma which produces a block separated comma number. MuS: You put a space after the comma, then it' is not used as a separator. BM: Even if you think there are rules, authors do what they want to do. PL: I just looked at the spec. I think CN is pretty clear to not use 1,000 separators, so any comma would be something else. As far as content is concerned, I believe we can assume that periods are the digital separators. From Patrick D F Ion to everyone: The question is whether your ML is attempting to allow author rules to be expressed. As PL says you can declare you assume one convention. From Moritz Schubotz to everyone: You could write complex numbers with comma (real, complex) NS: So, you would just say no block operators: no spaces, no commas, and no periods for blocks. It would just be a decimal separator and that could be a period or a comma. Is that what you' are saying? *ACTION* DC: add at least one example to the presentation <mn> section showing a number separated with commas. *ACTION* NS will summarize this discussion and open an issue on what we should do about content MathML. <https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=2024.3.1#cp-md-1-3-units->3. Units: - Potentially a full list of units with all their prefixes as intent concept names - List of Units (#475) <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/475> (finished, but still updating with feedback) - Deyan’s Physics list <https://gist.github.com/dginev/825078ae316c32c312436f42061b3d05> (finished) - Deyan’s Chemistry list <https://gist.github.com/dginev/ff7e6e090b79a0389fc2eff2b9961331> *ACTION* NS will write Greg Williams to ask him whether he has seen C followed by a degree sign versus a degree sign followed by c. DC will ask Joseph the same question. From Deyan Ginev to everyone: SE post on the topic: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/292859 ADD parts-per-million (ppm), parts-per-billion (ppb), parts-per-trillion (ppt), and parts-per- quadrillion (ppq). - Deyan’s Biology List <https://gist.github.com/dginev/d6367f53cb7b1fbed8abfa6bddd4f2c0> ADD: millimeters-of-mercury (mmHg). From Moritz Schubotz to everyone: In Swiss German it is mm Hg NS: Such units as calories (cal) can take SI prefixes like "k" in kcal. All of the other units can take SI prefixes. From Deyan Ginev to everyone: There is kilo-annum: From Deyan Ginev to everyone: also, kiloyear (ky) - Deyan's Earth Science and Engineering List <https://gist.github.com/dginev/cec6eb44f8c3fdffbffe546448049981> Add atmosphere (atm) NS: We have not addressed compass directions. *ACTION* NS: Create an issue on what to do about compass directions. Maybe it will be a property or concept. Add potential-of-hydrogen (pH). NS: Thanked DG for finding all the documents which discussed units. NS: If anyone finds further unit-oriented documents, please let us know. *ACTION* NS: the next step is take the units list and move it into the core property list.
Received on Wednesday, 5 June 2024 20:56:06 UTC