Minutes: MathML Full meeting 18 Jan, 2024

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - David Farmer
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - Bruce Miller
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bert Bos
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Cary Supalo

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.6.0-f#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.6.0-f#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
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Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: We will have a two-hour meeting on February 1, 2024.

NS: International Conference on Computers Helping People with Special
Needs, (ICCHP) submission
<https://icchp.org/sites/default/files/ICCHP_CALL_2024.pdf> (Feb 2
deadline)?

NS: asked for people to help him with writing a paper for this conference.
The following individuals said they would help: DC, MoS, and PL. NS will
send his draft to them.

MuS: Added a demo mode to UnicodeMathML site (
https://murrayiii.github.io/UnicodeMathML/playground/) and conversion from
MathML to UnicodeMath. Have tested conversion from DLMF pMML examples.

DC: He has software that will translate LaTex into accessible pdf (
https://github.com/latex3/tagging-project/discussions/56). Some examples
showing initial attempts at tagging LaTeX math. Each math expression is
tagged with two associated files, one with the original LaTeX source
fragment, and one with MathML. No explicit tagging markup needs to be added
to the document body. The PDF are produced using lualatex-dev built from a
feature branch of the latex2e/latex-lab code. Currently the TeX sources are
not shown but uncompressed PDF are provided here to allow commenting on the
PDF tagging structure used and to allow testing. The files have been tested
with ngpdf and nvda+mathcat screen reader.

DC: is trying to encourage vendors to get accessible pdf to work.
Currently, pdf readers don't support accessible pdf.

NS: was asked by the head of NVDA research to incorporate MathCAT into the
NVDA core. He asked if there were things he could do to help NS get this
done.

DG: I'm curious about which LaTeX are you adding.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.6.0-f#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-485-tends-to-485-a->2.
tends-to (485) <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/485>

DG: We agreed to use the above and below variants.

DG: I just wanted to clarify the issue that, even if you guys solve it for
"core", it is quite likely that it will come up for "open".

*ACTION* Close issue 485.

Now let us jump to DF's list.

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Core concept list updates
<https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/>

(finished the first item so we will start on David F's wish list)
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Deyan's original spreadsheet
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EsWou1K5nxBdLPvQapdoA9h-s8lg_qjn8fJH64g9izQ/edit#gid=1358098730>

(done)
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David F's wish list
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cLPaIy9kX5K-67RG6rjSAXErDSB-_iYmgZaTKQjShVg/edit#gid=0>

NS: DF will walk us through this.

DF: These are ambiguous, and I know that I'll need to provide markup for.

DF: I tried to group them by appearance.

We propose to add these concepts to core.

Consider cell a5: times, cross-product, by, direct-product

*ACTION* Open an issue for "by" as in a 3 by 4 matrix.

Add direct-product (the direct-product of vector a and vector b is a vector
c whose elements are: (a1*b1, a2*b2,…an*bn))

DF: I don't think we want to distinguish between direct products of groups
and direct products of sets without a structure.

Consider cell a7: (center-of-mass-of)

*ACTION* NS: make an issue to keep track of non-math things.

BM: This list could be exceptionally large.

NS: We do not have expertise in the sciences. We don't know which terms
should be put in core.

Center-of-mass-of will go into this non-math list.

Put antiparticle-of in the non math list.

Add (cell a10) cardinality.

Add norm (cell a11).

From Deyan Ginev to Everyone: name(L,2) vs _(L,2)

add round.

add permutation-cycle

From Deyan Ginev to Everyone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_permutation

Add span (linear algebra, cell a19).

Add identically-equals (cell a24).

*ACTION* similar-to (cell a25) has a typo. Add similar-to

Note that keeping the word "to", in several of our concepts, will be
reconsidered when we go back through the concept list once we have made our
initial list.

From Deyan Ginev to Everyone: Easy to wonder about :superfix and :subfix

Note that "superscript" and "subscript" (rows 26 and 27) will be saved for
a separate discussion.