Minutes: MathML full meeting 23 June, 2023

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Dennis Müller
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bruce Miller
   - David Farmer
   - Charles LaPierre
   - Steve Noble

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.3.0-rc1#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.3.0-rc1#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.3.0-rc1#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

TPAC *(11–15 Sept) reg is now open:
https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/Overview.html. Fee waivers are available,
no questions asked. fees go up after July 15

MUS may go to TPAC.

NS: is unsure when the MathML TPAC meeting will be held.

NS: has emailed Bert to ask the status of the charter.

Brian Kardell has asked people to send him topics for the June 26 core
meeting. DC may have topics. NS may have spec issues.

NS: We may not have an intent meeting on July 6 because NS will be at the
National Federation of the Blind convention.

MUS: Authors need a user-friendly way to enter intent attributes. We should
have a brainstorming session on this issue.

NS: It could automatically happen, either by users defining macros with
some intent's expansion, or by automatically translating with built-in
Macros.

DC: There'll be various market packages that will probably do this. Lately
there's been a lot of work on Pdf tagging.

DM: There are online applications that generate intents from Tech.

DF: If you are an author there is not an easy way to write a macro that
outputs intent attributes. It is worthy of a discussion.

DM: STEX can do this.

NS: We have a lot of package authors in the group, and if we have a bit of
a brainstorming session and people converge to one or two ideas on how it
might go, we might have more uniformity in the packages, and this would
help it be widely used.

People agreed that we should discuss methods to add intent attributes to
documents.

NS: Would DG be interested in this discussion? BM: yes.

NS: We do not want to ignore WYSIWYG editors that could create intent. SD
should be involved in this discussion.

NS: MUS, I know that you are no longer working on the word editor, but you
can be of great help in our discussions of how WYSIWYG editors can create
intent.

MUS: I can make recommendations to my colleagues at Microsoft, although I
am not sure how far that will get us.

NS: will schedule a meeting to discuss intent creation in late July.

BM: Certainly, people have asked: why can't you create a macro package that
has all the special functions that you are using?
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.3.0-rc1#cp-md-0-2-update-recap-of-where-we-are-and-what-is-left-to-do->2.
Update/recap of where we are and what is left to do.

(12 open intent issues-- can we close any?
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3Aintent+sort%3Aupdated-desc_>
)

NS: We are close to wrapping up intent. We have left to define what the
intents and the properties are, and we have definite spec work to write
down these things.

DC: We must avoid going back a year and starting over.

DC: The list of intents is sketchy.

NS: Does anyone object to the fact that we are ready to write?

*CONSENSUS:* We need to try and wrap up some details about the properties
and the intents, especially to decide what's in core and what's not in core.

NS: Issue 410 Decide what should be done with "core" and "open" intent
names. Originally they were in Google sheets. Now they are in GitHub, in
YAML format.

https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/

This location contains:

   - Intent Core Concepts
   - Intent Open Concepts
   - Intent Core Properties
   - Intent Open Properties
   - Intent Examples

core concepts https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/ open
concepts https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-open-concepts/ core
properties https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-properties/ open
properties https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-open-properties/

NS: Are people happy with the location and format of the intent attributes?

NS: Is the format of it in column and rows acceptable?

BM: GitHub is convenient. Can organizations, like the W3C, that plan to be
forever, depend on commercial products like GitHub?

NS: Everyone depends upon products like GitHub.

DC: You could move the data back to MathML.

NS: W3C has adopted GitHub.

*CONSENSUS:* NS: does anyone object to the location and format of the
intent attributes, namely GitHub and YAML? No.

*CONSENSUS:* closed issue 410.

NS: Consider issue 439 conflicting intents. The lowest level child can
override intents higher in the tree. **COONSENSUS:* close issue 439.

NS: Issue 465 decorated variables.

NS: If you have a long name and a short name, when do you stop reading the
long name and use the short name?

BM: It is an important feature that systems have this capability. Putting a
long and short name for every symbol would allow the long names to explode
the size of the document.

NS: Let us get experience before we decide this is a problem.

Close issue 465 for now by moving it too next.

NS: Consider issue 441 intent and style. DG considered a diagram with
colored parts. Parts of the math that described the diagram were colored
according to the part of the diagram they described. How could speech make
this diagram accessible? A person named Yaffle made a comment which we have
not answered.

NS: This is a hard problem on how you can represent color with speech. Put
this off until the next MathML version.

We would like to close issue 421, but we need MOS in the discussion before
we can close it.

NS: DC cannot make the June 29 meeting. What topic should we discuss in his
absence?

NS: There was a discussion of combining elements of appendix C on
accessibility with chapter 5 on intent. NS and SN should investigate this.

NS: We can discuss adding things to core.