Minutes: MathML Full Meeting, 12 Jan, 2023

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Bruce Miller
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Steve Noble
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bert Bos
   - Sam Dooley

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Regrets

   - David Farmer

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Agenda
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Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: The big news this week is that MathML in Chrome is out (After the
meeting, Edge's update came out; Opera's update to 109 recently went to
beta, so they will be a while)

NS: TPAC for 2023 was announced:

TPAC 2023 Hybrid Meeting 11-15 September 2023

Main in-person hub: Meliá Sevilla Hotel Calle Dr. Pedro de Castro, 1 41004
Sevilla Spain

NS: to BB: when do we need to ask for a charter extension?

BB: said that you could ask for an extension a few weeks before the current
charter expired. He said that the usual extension period was for three
months.

NS: wanted a year extension. He did not want a new charter.

BB: If you want/need a new charter, it is best to start now.

DC: We might get out a CR out this month. Our extension would say until we
got to PR.

NS: suggested asking for a three-month charter extension, then asking for a
new charter.

NS: We will not get out a PR out before the end of the summer.

NS: Once you release a CR, the implementation may take a long time.

DG: Is there an option to make the core spec a living document that can be
continuously updated?

NS: Working drafts are often what the implementers work with.

BB: That is a possibility with a new charter. It is not in our current
charter.

BB: This is called an evergreen spec.

DG: Evergreen Standards - W3C Wiki:
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Evergreen_Standards

DC: Do we need a charter forever?

BB: No, charters end.

DC: The schema and polyfills have been moved to the w3c repo.

We discussed the XML Entity Definitions for Characters (3rd Edition)
document: (https://w3c.github.io/xml-entities/)

DC: Only the entity names are normative. The changes are to keep up with
Unicode entities, and that part is not normative.

NS: Can we publish it as an updated recommendation?

NS: What do we need to do to make a third edition of this document? The
changes we made are only editorial.

DC: The Unicode version changed from version 11 to 15.

BB: We only need this group to agree on the publication.

*Consensus* Publish the "XML Entity Definitions for Characters" as a third
edition.

NS: Is some review needed?

DC: We have a change record.

*ACTION* BB will find out what is necessary to make the document a proposed
recommendation.

We had a discussion on fonts.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.2.1-2#cp-md-0-2-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-181-deprecating-mstyle-in-core-a-in-full-new-thoughts->2.
Deprecating mstyle in core? <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/181>
in full? New thoughts?

This was held over until next week.

We will also talk about the charter next week.
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Going through the open intent issues
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+intent+label%3Aintent>

in the hopes of closing or coalescing some.

Chemistry and semantics/AT (issue #93)

NS: Chemical expressions can look like math but are pronounced differently.
This issue will be merged with the "isa" discussion, Issue 426.

DG: He thinks isa can handle this. If isa is not used, then we would have
to re-open this issue.

n-ary Intent discussion (Issue #253)

What happens when you have a long expression?

DG: We can fully mark it up with intent. This would be big. It is better to
just read it in the order it is printed. Do not use intent on it.

Closed as completed.

Need a scheme/philosophy/plan for unifying/breaking apart "level 0" names
(Issue #254)

We discussed the example of an interval. How do you specify the interval as
an open or closed interval? How do you specify if each side is open or
closed?

We do not have a general philosophy, but more names are better as long as
speech makes good use of them.

Close.

Are intents needed in intent-core for "self-describing" things? (Issue #255)

We considered trig functions like sin and cos which are self-describing.

WG agreed that self-describing functions do not need to be in core. But it
would be useful to have a table to remind AT that they need to deal with
sin, csc, etc.

Closed.

Make the sample presentation of Strict Content use intent (issue 284)

Should the sample presentations use intent?

DG: You can use things that are not in core because we are open ended.

BM: We should be using good MathML markup if needed.

DC: Add judicious intents where needed.

DG: Take no action. It is out of scope. Close the issue.

NS: This is about putting intent on presentation and not on content.

We did not close issue 285. NS replaced the intent label with a label that
said, "it needs specification".

We will continue considering the issues next week.

NS: is looking forward to the "isa", "table" and "internationalization"
discussions.