Minutes: MathML Full meeting 24, August, 2023

 Attendees:

   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Murray Sargent
   - Bruce Miller
   - Sam Dooley
   - David Farmer
   - Deyan Ginev

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.4.1-rc#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets

   - Paul Libbrecht

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.4.1-rc#cp-md-0-agenda>
Agenda
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.4.1-rc#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: The MathML TPAC meeting is about 1.5 Hours long.

MuS: will attend the TPAC meeting.

DG: reviewed the book entitled: “Schaum’s Outline of Theory and Problems of
Mathematics for Physics Students” from which he found around 150 examples
of what might be core intent values.

DG: The math equations were pictures. There was no MathML in the book.

DC: arXiv started rolling out the HTML version of arXiv. They intentionally
put out ones with errors to evaluate the error reporting.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.4.1-rc#cp-md-0-2-review-of-a-href-https-davidcarlisle-github-io-mathml-mixing_intent_dictionaries-proposed-changes-to-the-intent-section-of-the-spec-a->2.
Review of proposed changes to the intent section of the spec
<https://davidcarlisle.github.io/mathml/#mixing_intent_dictionaries>

about what is in core. This is based on discussion in issue 470
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/470>. The goal is getting acceptable
text for the spec and commit it.

NS: DG did a nice job of coming up with some new language.

NS DG wrote a one page note with more details on how naming should be done.
He wrote guidelines for how to curate the list.

NS: says that DG's work makes a nice note that the spec can reference.

NS: Read portions of chapter 5 entitled: "Annotating MathML: intent" that
had been changed. He wanted the group's opinion on the changes.

There was a discussion on the term "K-12" to indicate the complexity of the
material covered by the spec.

There was a feeling that "K-12" would not be familiar to non-American
audiences. The term "pre-university" will be used instead of "K-12".

The term was extended to "pre-university STEM education". The term STEM was
included to show that the spec covers all fields where mathematics is used.
Such topics as chemistry and physics and other sciences are covered by the
term STEM.

MuS: Thought that the term AT "access technology" was used inappropriately
through the spec. He thought that AT was being anthropomorphized.

DG: talked about the use of the active voice versus the passive voice.

DG: looked at the SVG spec and said they used the term "user agent".

DC said that AT emphasizes access technology. He said that user agent was
broader.

NS: looked at the ARIA spec for suggestions. They define a user agent as
any software that retrieves, renders, and facilitates end user interaction
with web content.

One of the points in the discussion was "does AT include browsers". The
result was to replace the term "AT" with user agent which is everything
that comes between the user and the data.

*ACTION* DG: said this topic should be researched further, and he said he
would do the research. He will create an issue on the topic.

ACTION: DC: wants to merge the changes, on his branch, into the spec.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.4.1-rc#cp-md-0-3-review-of-paul-39-s-work-item-to>3.
Review of Paul's work item to

expand the list of core concepts
<https://polx.github.io/mathml-docs/intent-core-concepts/> and use the
criteria that we put into the spec to add/remove/change the items.

NS: I'd like to start going through this list and turn the names into names
that aren't necessarily the names used in content MathML.

NS: I wanted to try and have a process that we could use for this next week
to edit this list in some way.

NS: Does anyone have a suggestion how we do this without everyone creating
their own fork, and then having a massive merging problem?

DC: said that few people will be working on this; therefore, probably they
will not be working on the same material at the same time.

NS: said everyone should do frequent pushes.

NS: People working on this should also do frequent pulls.

DC: I will grab this off Paul's repro and recommit it.

NS: Everyone should work on this and recommit every day. I hope that next
week we'll have some productive discussions on changes that have happened
to the list.

NS: And that in two or three weeks, we have an actual initial list that,
while it will certainly continue to change, will serve as something which
we can go forward with.

DG: I'm quite suspicious whether we have sufficient GIT management culture
to pull this off the way you described it because you need to be based
before you commit every single time if everybody's just going to blindly
push into the master or main branch of this repository.

DC: I would be shocked if more than 2 people push in a week.

DG: At the beginning of the call, I mentioned that I have 150 entries that
may or may not be in core that I would like to contribute.

DG: And that's okay to start a conversation about what we are to do.
Because I should probably not just rebase and push them in.

NS: Well, I think, Deyan, before you put in your new list, I think what we
should do is refine the existing list by changing names, potentially
deleting stuff, and then we start adding more.

DG: So, do I understand correctly this is a task for you, David, and Paul,
for now?

NS: Could be yes?

NS: We accomplished what I was hoping we would accomplish today which was
to get the spec Wording done, and some plans for moving forward. So, thanks
everyone. And we'll talk next week and hopefully we'll have some
interesting stuff to talk about in terms of actual core concepts.

DC: will be here on August 24, then he will be off for two weeks.