Minutes: MathML Full meeting 31, March, 2022

 Attendees:

   - David Carlisle
   - Sam Dooley
   - David Farmer
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Murray Sargent
   - Neil Soiffer
   - Bert Bos
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - Bruce Miller
   - Cary Supalo
   - Steve Noble
   - Louis Maher

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.0-02#cp-md-0-regrets->
Regrets:

   - Patrick Ion
   - Stephen Watt
   - Steve Noble

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.0-02#cp-md-0-announcements-updates>
Announcements/updates
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.0-02#cp-md-0-go-over-progress-on-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-issues-issues-a-from-last-week>Go
over progress on issues <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues> from last
week
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.0-02#cp-md-0-updates-on-the-following->updates
on the following??

   - Section 4.6 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/278> Collect
   Pragmatic-to-Strict Transformation

SD: Chapter four has an algorithm that converts pragmatic MathML into
strict MathML. Parts of this algorithm were scattered throughout chapter 4.
He brought all the parts of the algorithm into section 4.6.

*ACTION:* SD will convert section 4.6 into an appendix.

   - Include a more deliberate integration of accessibility
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/282>


   - No action

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.0-02#cp-md-0-continue-reviewing-the-a-href-https-w3c-github-io-mathml-mathml-4-a-actually-3-doc>Continue
reviewing the MathML 4 <https://w3c.github.io/mathml/> (actually 3) doc

DC: restructured chapter 2.

NS: worked on chapter 3 s saying what was and was not core.

NS: Removed material in chapter 3 to make it smaller. Worked on folding.

NS: wants to pull out the media type declaration into a standalone appendix.

Consensus

*ACTION* PL: will open an issue on this.

   - Allow intent attribute on content MathML](
   https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/289)

DC: reworked chapter 5 on intent.

DC: reviewed his chapter 5 changes.

BM: and others suggested grammar that DC could use.

DC: discussed how he used wild cards.

NS: thought we would eliminate positional arguments.

DG: implementations live in their own realm. He found DC's grammar less
informative.

DC: Unicode changes can cause us difficulties.

DG: wants to have understandable attributes.

DG: Do we want strings which we can validate against?

DC: If you have a language with grammar, someone should be able to parse
it.

NS: For letters, perhaps we should have a footnote describing what is in
the letter class.

NS: there are classes of Unicode characters. We should not have to
reference a specific version of Unicode.

MUS wants to use a numeric literal for a name so that you do not have to
look up the proper meaning of that name.

NS: There is no agreement on this issue.

   - drop maxsize=infinity <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/294>
   (extended to some more values, so more discussion)

NS: Originally we were going to drop maxsize=infinity; however, several
size attributes are used in MathML:

   - attribute linethickness {length | "thin" | "medium" | "thick"}?
   - attribute charspacing {length | "loose" | "medium" | "tight"}?,
   - attribute mathsize {"small" | "normal" | "big" | length}?,
   - attribute mslinethickness {length | "thin" | "medium" | "thick"}?
   - attribute indentshiftfirst {length | "indentshift"}?,
   - attribute indentshiftlast {length | "indentshift"}?,
   - attribute maxsize {length | "infinity"}?
   - attribute columnwidth {list {("auto" | length | "fit") +}}?,

DC: mpadded also has size attributes. Percentages of sizes are used in
these attributes.

DG: there is a problem with increments like "with=+2m". There is confusion
on the way this is used.

NS: We should allow these size attributes. We should close this issue and
leave them as is.

NS: Can we tell if these size attributes are being used?

DG: Searches can tell you this.

*ACTION* DG will use searches to see if these size attributes are being
used.

   - Deprecated items <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/303> (review
   the items deprecated in MathML 3 and earlier just to get consensus on
   pulling them)

DC: I think we have an agreed aim of generally dropping things that were
deprecated in MathML3. Essentially just search for "deprecated" in the
current GitHub main branch.

   - Potential presentation MathML items to deprecate in MathML 4
   <https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/304>

DC: In MathML 3 he looked for the word deprecated and put them in issue 303
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/303>.

DG: It sets a bad precedent to not remove things that have been deprecated.

*ACTION:* the following people will remove items marked as deprecated from
the following chapters: NS: chapter 3, SD: chapter 4, and DC: chapter 5.

NS: We should reconsider deprecating the definition for URL.

NS: says that we should fill out a "change" section with the deprecated
items we are removing.

*ACTION:* DG will put items we are deprecating into issue 304.

NS: is happy because the specification is getting smaller.