Minutes: MathML intent meetings, 9 Dec, 2021

 Attendees:

   - David Carlisle
   - Sam Dooley
   - David Farmer
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Patrick Ion
   - Louis Maher
   - Bruce Miller
   - Murray Sargent
   - Neil Soiffer
   - Moritz Schubotz
   - Bert Bos
   - Paul Libbrecht

Regrets:

   - Cary Supalo
   - Stephen Watt

Announcements/updates

We will meet on December 16. We will take off two weeks for the holidays
and resume on Jan 6.

NS: would like us to have a plan for intent by the end of the Dec 16
meeting so he can do some prototyping over the holidays. Hopefully, that is
realistic.
Background material

Bruce's material:
https://mathml-refresh.github.io/discussion-papers/semantics-mini

Sam's Proposal:
https://samdooley.github.io/mathml-docs/intent2cmml/intent.html

Sam's Demo: https://samdooley.github.io/mathml-docs/intent2cmml/demo.html

Deyan's proposal: https://prodg.org/talks/encyclopedic-intent

Deyan's demo page :https://dginev.github.io/tiny-mathml-a11y-demo/
David C will present his proposal that resolves differences in some of the
previous proposals.

DC: Of the three people who made intent recommendations, Sam's was the most
complicated.

DC: Was not in favor of using wild cards. When you are referring to a
grandchild, he discourages the use of slashes. He believes you should use
variable names.

DC: If you have something without intent, then your spec must say what your
defaults are.

DG: How are the defaults to be applied?

BM: Deciding to use a specific language for a default is out of scope.

PL: Found the binomial example to be useful in demonstrating the intent
process.

NS: Suppose people used mtable instead of mfrac for the binomial case?

NS: Showed his pattern matching example. Pattern matching may be difficult.
The fraction and vector cases were quite different.

DC: You do not have to have default intent for everything.

DF: Would it be possible to indicate the preferred markup for common
objects? Sometimes there is more than one way to speak certain math
expressions. Is it possible to specify a preferred way to write math?

SD: We should not be saying that this is the preferred MathML way to
specify things.
You could have a library that generates presentation markup for certain
operators. You could have default intent generated for this case.

DF: I will write software which generates markup, so I would prefer to be
told what kind of presentation MathML people want. If I have to guess, then
people down the pipeline are stuck using my choice.

DG: It is not clear that people will follow preferred presentation MathML
suggestions.

MOS: We should have default intent for standard presentation cases.

MOS: Wants to develop tools and get input from users to see what works for
generating speech. He wants to have voice output to check our intent
efforts.

NS: There are many audiences for the voice output. There will be many
opinions of how to speak math expressions.

MOS: To get a better understanding of the problems, we need voice output
cases.

DG: For his level one cases; DG will generate presentation and intent
MathML and use this to test his default rules. There are 240 cases in DG's
level one.

DF: I will take DG's examples as the preferred markup, and start coding
when that is available.

MUS: There is an effort in LaTeX to specify intent. Simplicity plays a
major role. I am interested in two additional formats: Unicode Math and
LaTeX; then deducing intent from standard forms of these, or a pMathML
version.

NS: thinks mrows can be spoken as is, without rearranging their order.

NS: We are not sure if we are allowing positional versus name references.
We will talk about this next week.

NS: If someone has something to present next week, please let NS know;
otherwise, we will continue today's discussion next week.

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