From: <juanrgonzaleza@canonicalscience.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 03:05:43 -0700 (PDT)

Message-ID: <3040.217.124.88.226.1160733943.squirrel@webmail.canonicalscience.com>

To: <www-math@w3.org>

Cc: <ian@hixie.ch>, <dev-tech-mathml@lists.mozilla.org>

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 03:05:43 -0700 (PDT)

Message-ID: <3040.217.124.88.226.1160733943.squirrel@webmail.canonicalscience.com>

To: <www-math@w3.org>

Cc: <ian@hixie.ch>, <dev-tech-mathml@lists.mozilla.org>

White Lynx said: > It is clear that markup will be widely supported in Microsoft products and > will play important role in STM publishing. And others also. Begin to appear tools for Office XML before launching! > But it is unclear what consequences we will get for web and webbrowsers, > if it will be exported to XHTML+MathML or will appear in XHTML+OMML form > (and either MathML or OMML will be supported by MSIE) then we can live > with it, but if we just see bunch on WordML documents on web then it > will be the end of normal "browsing experience" of any kind, as it > will end up beyound the browser's scope and will be just passed to > Office or plugins that handle WordML. I read yesterday from Brian that Murray Sargent (the chief of OMML) is joining to MathML 3. Why do not ask him directly? > In this context it is vital to integrate MathML (actually both but we > apparently have no control over OMML) into web environment, to avoid > degeneration of web into bunch of WordML (well being XML based it is more > manageable then PDF, but regardless this it is not the web format) files. Agree. > But under integration into web environment I mean integration in XML+CSS > framework, today it is not the time to play with HTML tags, it will not > give us any new functionality that could help us to be more competitive. Agree also! The Roger/Ian experiment is based in the unproven claim that mathematicians cannot use MathML is mass because is blocked in a XHTML framework and XHTML is hard. The main premise is that if MathML (current version) is introduced into HTML, then MathML use would expand in exponential way. When i ask by data on the claim, i never receive statistics, just beliefs based in "i receive X mails saying how evil XHTML is". Moreover, people can use MathML in HTML for years in _both_ Mozilla and MSIE. In my previous post i link a HTML 4 strict page with MathML islands like <math display='block' xmlns:m='http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML'> <m:mfrac> <m:mn>y</m:mn> <m:mi>x</m:mi> </m:mfrac> </m:math> or without prefix <math display='block' xmlns='http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML'> <mrow> <msubsuP> <mo>∫</mo> <mn>-1</mn> <mn>1</mn> </msubsuP> </mrow> <msqrt> <mrow> <mn>1</mn> <mo>-</mo> <msuP> <mi>x</mi> <mn>2</mn> </msuP> </mrow> </msqrt> <mi>d</mi> <mi>x</mi> <mo>=</mo> <mfrac> <mi>π</mi> <mn>2</mn> </mfrac> </mrow> </math> and both are rendered in HTML 4! since HTML 5 claims backward compatibility, we already got a way to publish MathML islands when you cannot modify your server MIME. The page proves that Mozilla can render MathML in HTML (even if Roger claim the contrary in Mozilla page). MSIE also can render them. You can apply styles change color of equations, size, mstyle also works, you can transform an equation in a link... I forgot explain there that final DOM is also a HTML+MathML DOM not XHTML one since final DOM contains <hr> <br> and so on instead the XHTML forms. You can render MathML 2 (and probably MathML 3 also), no need for <none>, no need for new Ian's syntax, no need for changes in CSS layer, no need for a fixed m prefix (I checked just now that Docbook mml: also works and is rendered), no side autoclosing effects, no incompatibility with MathPLayer etc. Therefore, i see no rationale for the HTML 5 experiment. Just a waste of time. Why all this time and discussion is not devoted to Mozilla bugs, CSS inline blocks and tables, full formatting semantics, next STIX fonts not dealed by current TeX engine, slow performance with medium size MathML docs... one wait minutes before rendering. Using the trick from Jipsen, some people who _cannot_ (e.g. free domains in servers) use X(HT)ML can introduce MathML into HTML 4. It is probable that script can be optimized and reduced in size. This may be seen like a way to 'publish' mathml TODAY if you are limited to MIME text/html. The trick works for both Mathplayer+MSIE and Mozilla. The future way to publish would be a full XML framework (or better beyond XML limits [e.g. ConciseXML]). Juan R. Center for CANONICAL |SCIENCE)Received on Friday, 13 October 2006 10:06:22 UTC

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