- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2025 12:24:25 +0800
- To: www-international@w3.org
https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-minutes.html
text version:
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
03 July 2025
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250703T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2025/07/03-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert
Contents
1. [4]Agenda Review
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR Review
5. [8]Pending Issue Review
6. [9]typeface style definition
7. [10]Pull Requests
8. [11]AOB?
Meeting minutes
Agenda Review
Action Items
<addison> [12]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/
issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen
[12] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues?q=is:issue state:open
<addison> #176
<gb> [13]Action 176 add WG comment to html 11395 (on aphillips)
due 2025-07-03
[13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/176
<addison> #175
<gb> [14]Action 175 respond to our #2005 (on xfq) due
2025-06-26
[14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/175
xfq: I took a look at the thread. It seems the HTML parser
white space parsing cannot be changed without security issues.
… One thing we could do is to include a definition of ASCII
white space specifically for HTML.
addison: I think you wrote such definitions already.
xfq: We describe the vertical tab for some specifications.
addison: Historical reasons.
xfq: So maybe there is nothing we can do.
addison: If we wrote HTML today, we might do something
different...
addison: Shoudl I respond?
xfq: Yes
<addison> #174
<gb> [15]Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on
r12a) due 2025-06-19
[15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/174
<addison> #173
<gb> [16]Action 173 ping zainab (on aphillips) due 2025-06-19
[16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/173
<addison> #169
<gb> [17]Action 169 reply to html 10843 and css 9832 (on
aphillips) due 2025-05-08
[17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/169
<addison> #162
<gb> [18]Action 162 poll I18N/CSS for new day/time (on
aphillips) due 2025-03-25
[18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/162
<addison> #157
<gb> [19]Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options
and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20
[19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/157
<addison> #135
<gb> [20]Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in
session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135
<addison> #127
<gb> [21]Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest
between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30
[21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127
<addison> #33
<gb> [22]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)
[22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33
<addison> #7
<gb> [23]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7
<addison> #4
<gb> [24]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips)
due 27 Jul 2023
[24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4
Info Share
RADAR Review
<addison> [25]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
[25] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
addison: No incoming requests, nothing in review.
Pending Issue Review
<addison> [26]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending
<addison> [27]i18n-activity#2013
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2013
<gb> [28]Issue 2013 [css-text] `hanging-punctuation: last`
should be "conditionally hang" (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker]
[s:css-text]
[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2013
addison: CSS issue on hanging punctuation ^^
<addison> [29]i18n-activity#2011
[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2011
<gb> [30]Issue 2011 Define optional normalization of full-width
characters in <input type="number"> (by w3cbot) [pending]
[tracker] [s:html] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq]
[i:interaction]
[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2011
addison: Interesting thread ^^ on digits input in <input
type=number>.
… We talked a little about it last week.
typeface style definition
<addison> #174
<gb> [31]Action 174 add 'typeface style` to the glossary (on
r12a) due 2025-06-19
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/174
addison: Defintion of typeface style.
… Richards proposed text not in glossary-style language.
… My rewrite may not work either.
r12a: Your wrote a "this" and I don't know what it refers to.
JcK: What is a "typeface style"? Different from a typeface?
r12a: The definition tries to explain it.
addison: It's a neologism that we are creating.
JcK: confusion with historical terms.
Typographers typically talk about classification, e.g.,
[32]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox-ATypI_classification
[32] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox-ATypI_classification
addison: The first sentence of the def doens't really say what
a typeface style is.
Pull Requests
r12a: "... common to a number of fonts... styles... " I'll
rework it
<addison> [33]w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#162
[33] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/162
<gb> [34]Pull Request 162 Modernize 'choosing character
encodings' (by aphillips) [Agenda+] [normative]
[34] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/162
<addison> [35]https://
deploy-preview-162--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_choosing
[35] https://deploy-preview-162--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_choosing
addison: My reworking of choosing character encodings ^^
… thumbs up from Anne van Kesteren.
… John, you sent an email.
<r12a> grappple >> grapple
<addison> [36]https://www.w3.org/TR/
i18n-glossary/#dfn-character-encoding
[36] https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#dfn-character-encoding
JcK: Old issue of chacter encoding and charset in Unicode. I
have no problem, as long as the definition is clear.
… Can be very confusing if you come to this with variuos
historical views.
addison: I use character encoding as a shorthand and link the
term to the definition.
… I think in modern terms character encoding form is clear.
JcK: Less concerned about character encoding vs character
encoding form.
addison: 4.7is about other, non-Unicode encoding forms.
JcK: No problem as long as it comnpletely clear.
… But right now different encoding form in 4.6 and 4.7.
addison: The bottom set of mustard is old and maybe I can clean
it up, improve the wording.
… If you allow different character encodings, there should be a
label, don't you agree?
JcK: I certainly agree.
… Between Unicode and iso10646, you'll find encoding form used
as character set. So conflict with that earlier use.
… Also should put labels on HTTP/1.0 and HTTP/1.1
addison: But those are out of scope for W3C :-)
JcK: It seems you use the same term in two overlapping ways.
One is only about Unicode.
xfq: The text improved since the porevious iteration
<addison> [37]w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#163
[37] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/163
<gb> [38]Pull Request 163 Mention layout mirroring for bidi (by
xfq)
[38] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/163
<addison> [39]https://
deploy-preview-163--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#typ_bidi
[39] https://deploy-preview-163--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#typ_bidi
addison: Any objection to publishing it, after I made the
improvemenbts?
No objections
<addison> > Specifications defining user interface layouts
SHOULD support automatic mirroring for right-to-left languages,
ensuring that spatial relationships, navigation patterns, and
directional elements are appropriately reversed while
preserving semantic meaning.
xfq: The PR is about automatic mirroring for rtl languages, if
needed.
… E.g., a switch button should be mirrored.
… Another aspects is "logical properties" exposed to authors,
such as in CSS.
… That also applies for vertical text.
… We have a section in specdev about logical properties that is
currently empty.
addison: This is a gap to fill in specdev. Thanks for starting!
… I suspect we have to do some thinking, because a good
description is complex.
… Probably needs an illustration.
… I pointed to an example from one of my talks,
… in which "forward" means "left".
… And we need to describe what spec auhtors need to do.
JcK: If I have arabic digits and rtl letters, and I want to
slope the text, how do I do that?
xfq: Should provide the possibility to slope both left and
right.
addison: We may need to reorder the sections to be clearer.
r12a: The first mustard about sloping doesn't belong in this
section.
addison: Section 9 typographic support?
xfq: Or font management?
addison: As I said in my issue comment, I think it is not
typographic support. More UI. Maybe section 10.
<r12a> [40]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/
t%3Atyp_font_management_x
[40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t:typ_font_management_x
<r12a> [41]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/
t%3Atyp_logical_x
[41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t:typ_logical_x
r12a: When we have empty sections, it is a good idea to follow
the link to the review comments, because there is quite a bit
in there.
… Specdev tries to distill the intelligence from people's
reviews.
addison: So what should the scope of your work be? UI
mirroring?
xfq: Yes this PR is for UI mirroring, as defined by a spec, not
the author.
… I'll rework this.
AOB?
<xfq> [42]w3c/i18n-drafts#434
[42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/434
<gb> [43]Pull Request 434 Change RFC 2616 to RFC 9110 (by xfq)
[43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/434
xfq: HTTP Content-Language header: I updated the link to RFC
9111, which I believe is the latest.
… we cannot link to a section of STD97, so I linked to the RFC.
addison: Is that true?
xfq: We can link to std97, but not to a section within it.
<xfq> [44]https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std97
[44] https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std97
jck: [section numbers of RFCs]
xfq: Shall I merge this PR?
addison: Unless RFC9110 has been obsoleted already, which I
think is not the case.
<xfq> atsushi, feel free to take a look at [45]w3c/
i18n-drafts#685 when you have time
[45] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/685
<gb> [46]Issue 685 [questions/qa-html-encoding-declarations]
Japanese translation of character encoding (by xfq)
[46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/685
Received on Friday, 4 July 2025 04:24:34 UTC