[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2025-04-24

https://www.w3.org/2025/04/24-i18n-minutes.html





text version:

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

24 April 2025

[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

[2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250424T150000/
[3] https://www.w3.org/2025/04/24-i18n-irc

Attendees

Present
addison, atsushi, Bert, Daniel, Helen, Kathy, r12a,
Sage, Wilco, xfq

Regrets
-

Chair
Addison Phillips

Scribe
xfq

Contents

1. [4]WCAG-ACT Joint Meeting
2. [5]Agenda Review
3. [6]Action Items
4. [7]Info Share
5. [8]Review RADAR
6. [9]Pending Issue Review
7. [10]WebNN
8. [11]Notification Email Changes
9. [12]Specdev "isomorphic string" PR
10. [13]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

WCAG-ACT Joint Meeting

[self-introduction]

<addison> [14]w3c/wcag-act#572

[14] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/572

<gb> [15]Issue 572 How are rule identifiers matched to one
another? (by bert-github) [i18n-needs-resolution]

[15] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/572

addison: we did an i18n review of the ACT rules a while ago
… an open issue ^
… we have some other open issues that we might look at if
there's interest and time
… it says "This identifier must be unique when the rule is part
of a ruleset"
… our comment on that is uniqueness can be challenging in a
Unicode context

<Wilco> [16]https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/593/files

[16] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/593/files

<gb> [17]Pull Request 593 Qualify identifier uniqueness prose
(by daniel-montalvo)

[17] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/593

addison: ACT rule doesn't define how an ACT rule is written
… it's not a file format
… so you can write ACT rules in a number of different ways
… these are the things that you need to have in a successful
ACT rule

Wilco: yeah

addison: you don't define how the identifiers are created
… the challenge is how to tell people how to meet the reqs
… we have a really long document about identifiers and checking
uniqueness called charmod-norm

Wilco: we anticipated different groups writing their own rule
sets potentially

addison: a weak must is a should

addison: because you don't specify what the format is
… or a rule set is, you can't say how the uniqueness is
determined
… a rule set could be case insensitive, which would make
uppercase and lowercase versions of English words the same

Wilco: yeah

addison: but it's up to whoever's writing the rule set to
ensure the uniqueness of rule ids
… and you might want to say that straight out

<addison> > An ACT Rule <em class="rfc2119">must</em> have an
identifier that is a unique string of unicode characters. The
identifier can be any text, such as a lower case ascii string,
URL, or a database identifier.

Wilco: I don't understand what might not work about what we're
proposing in PR 593

addison: I think you want to stay out of getting too specific
… my tendency would just be it should be unique within a rule
set

Wilco: yeah

Wilco: I left a comment on [18]https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/
pull/593#discussion_r2058569066

[18] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/593#discussion_r2058569066

<gb> [19]Pull Request 593 Qualify identifier uniqueness prose
(by daniel-montalvo)

[19] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/593

addison: that looks good

JcK: you're walking along the edge of a cliff
… because the moment somebody has to start matching what
appears in the rule set to something which appears somewhere
else
… you suddenly jump into all the difficulties about matching a
pair of Unicode identifiers

Wilco: you're right, we're aware
… if there was a thousand orgs writing rules and they were each
writing a thousand rules we might have a problem here
… but it's not a thing we ever expect to happen

JcK: in reality it doesn't require 1000, it requires about
three

addison: do you want a health warning?
… I think this is probably fine

<addison> [20]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3As%3Aact-rules-form
at

[20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue state:open label:s:act-rules-format

<Wilco> [21]w3c/wcag-act#574

[21] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/574

<gb> [22]Issue 574 Is the ‘descriptive title’ used for
matching? (by bert-github) [i18n-needs-resolution]

[22] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/574

Daniel: I propose to close this
… We are not using the descriptive title for matching

Kathy: have you all looked at 573?

[23]w3c/wcag-act#573

[23] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/573

<gb> [24]CLOSED Issue 573 ACT does not require that the
language of text is indicated (by bert-github)
[i18n-needs-resolution]

[24] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/573

<addison> [25]https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/592/files

[25] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/592/files

<gb> [26]MERGED Pull Request 592 Qualify "writing direction"
statement (by daniel-montalvo)

[26] https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/592

addison: 592 closed it, we haven't reviewed that yet

Wilco: it might be good to just go over all of these too
… make sure we're all on the same page and can move forward

addison: it seems to address our comment
… you don't specify a file format, so you don't say what form
the metadata takes

Wilco: so I think we covered all issues
… it depends on whatever format you implemented in
… which is a browser

xfq: should we close our tracker issues?

addison: once they merge the PR

addison: don't touch the horizontal review labels because
they're how the automation works
… you just close it

Daniel: thank you for your comments

[ACT folks leave]

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> [27]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

<addison> #167

<gb> [28]Action 167 file issue(s) against
limiting-local-font-access (on aphillips) due 2025-04-24

[28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/167

<addison> close #167

<gb> Closed [29]issue #167

[29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/167

<addison> #165

<gb> [30]Action 165 add a conformance section to suppress the
respec warning to specdev (on aphillips) due 2025-04-10

[30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/165

addison: #165, when you do that it causes our spec to blow up

<addison> #162

<gb> [31]Action 162 poll I18N/CSS for new day/time (on
aphillips) due 2025-03-25

[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/162

<addison> #157

<gb> [32]Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options
and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20

[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/157

addison: because we have all mustard in non-normative sections

<addison> #135

<gb> [33]Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in
session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

[33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135

addison: so I didn't do that

<addison> #127

<gb> [34]Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest
between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

[34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127

<addison> #89

<gb> [35]Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on
xfq) due 2024-04-18

[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89

ACTION: xfq: add instructions on dark mode to i18n-editors

<gb> Created [36]action #168

[36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/168

<addison> #33

<gb> [37]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
for further review (on aphillips)

[37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

<addison> #7

<gb> [38]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

[38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

<addison> #4

<gb> [39]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips)
due 27 Jul 2023

[39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

Info Share

r12a: how do you turn on the dark mode?

addison: in specdev if you were looking at the preview in the
lower left corner there's a little icon you see the sun and
moon thing

[40]https://deploy-preview-130--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/

[40] https://deploy-preview-130--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/

r12a: all right, I see it

Review RADAR

<addison> [41]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

[41] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

Pending Issue Review

<addison> [42]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

[42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending

[43]w3c/i18n-activity#2001

[43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2001

<gb> [44]Issue 2001 Reduce Accept-Language (by w3cbot)
[pending] [tracker] [ietf] [s:http]

[44] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2001

addison: I have a sense of wanting to escalate this with us
… any objection to making this needs-resolution?
… done

<addison> [45]explainers-by-googlers/reduce-accept-language#10

[45] https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/reduce-accept-language/issues/10

<gb> [46]Issue 10 I18N objections to reducing accept-language
(by aphillips)

[46] https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/reduce-accept-language/issues/10

WebNN

[47]webmachinelearning/webnn#837 (comment)

[47] https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/837#issuecomment-2815870541

<gb> [48]Issue 837 String metadata and localization for
operator labels (by xfq) [i18n-needs-resolution]

[48] https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/837

[xfq introduces the issue]

xfq: it doesn't look like natural language string
… like "[49]mul#1234"

[49] https://github.com/w3c/mul/issues/1234

<gb> Issue 1234 not found

xfq: should we ask them to add a note to clarify this?

addison: if it's an identifier then identifierish things should
be applied to it
… for example Trojan Source stuff
… if you display this value you should guard against bad labels
… these are for consumption by people, but they are meant to be
identifiers

xfq: yeah

Notification Email Changes

r12a: I just want to rejig things slightly
… currently if you're subscribed to the winter list you receive
0 or 2 digests a day
… one is called reviews and the other one is called something
like WG issues
… I want to make it three
… a maximum of three
… one would be called review comments
… one would be called WG projects
… the other one would be called language enablement
… and then we separate out the LE stuff
… from the WG project
… splitting that out from the WG project like specdev and
charmod stuff
… split i18n repos into two
… one is WG project, the other one is LE

addison: would this affect the public list?

r12a: yes
… public-i18n-core list and the winter list

addison: any objection?
… martin made a comment on this

r12a: he seemed to be barking up the wrong tree to me
… he asked how many subscribers each list has and I replied to
that
… you're not getting more content in the emails
… the amount of content is still the same
… just splitting things
… which actually makes it easier for people because if you're
not interested in LE you just delete that digest and you focus
on the WG projects and vice versa

Specdev "isomorphic string" PR

<addison> [50]https://
deploy-preview-158--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char-string-by
te-oriented

[50] https://deploy-preview-158--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char-string-byte-oriented

addison: I have a PR where I've started working on address the
last bits of our comments with TAG about their design
principles
… and I'm having a conversation with annevk in the course of
doing this
… because of the weirdness of bytestring in webidl
… isomorphic string is where you take the byte and you turn it
into a Unicode code point
… 0x80 becomes code point 80
… I understand why, but they don't say that anywhere
… send your comments

Bert: a couple of holidays coming up, I won't be here next week
and the week after

Summary of action items

1. [51]xfq: add instructions on dark mode to i18n-editors

Received on Monday, 28 April 2025 03:00:46 UTC