[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2025-04-10

https://www.w3.org/2025/04/10-i18n-minutes.html





text version:

                             – DRAFT –
           Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

10 April 2025

   [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250410T150000/
      [3] https://www.w3.org/2025/04/10-i18n-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          Addison Phillips

   Scribe
          xfq, addison

Contents

    1. [4]Agenda Review
    2. [5]Action Items
    3. [6]Info Share
    4. [7]Review RADAR Review
    5. [8]Pending Issues Review
    6. [9]discuss pointerevent 505
    7. [10]specdev prs
    8. [11]Summary of action items

Meeting minutes

  Agenda Review

  Action Items

   <addison> [12]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

   <addison> #165

   <gb> [13]Action 165 add a conformance section to suppress the
   respec warning to specdev (on aphillips) due 2025-04-10

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/165

   <addison> #164

   <gb> [14]Action 164 add the google local fonts proposal to
   future agenda (on aphillips) due 2025-04-10

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/164

   addison: google local font proposal, I'll add to next week's
   agenda

   <addison> #163

   <gb> [15]Action 163 ask bidi related groups about pointerevents
   505 (on xfq) due 2025-03-27

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/163

   <addison> xfq: did this. saw some replies that logical versions
   of pan pointer events could be useful

   <addison> #162

   <gb> [16]Action 162 poll I18N/CSS for new day/time (on
   aphillips) due 2025-03-25

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/162

   addison: I'll keep 163 for now

   <addison> #159

   <gb> [17]Action 159 write up proposal for specdev char-string
   section, adding material that deals with the encoding interface
   et al (on aphillips) due 2025-02-27

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/159

   <addison> #157

   <gb> [18]Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options
   and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/157

   <addison> #136

   <gb> [19]Issue 136 follow up on XML errata (by aphillips)
   [task]

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/136

   addison: #160, I finally got a reply from florian, I'm going to
   hold this for now

   <gb> [20]CLOSED Action 160 review graphemes in specdev and add
   balinese example and otherwise fix the text (on aphillips) due
   2025-03-06

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/160

   <addison> #135

   <gb> [21]Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in
   session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135

   <addison> #127

   <gb> [22]Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest
   between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127

   <addison> #89

   addison: XML errata, next week I should have an answer

   <gb> [23]Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on
   xfq) due 2024-04-18

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89

   <addison> #33

   <gb> [24]Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG
   for further review (on aphillips)

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33

   <addison> #7

   <gb> [25]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
   comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
   r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

   <addison> #4

   <gb> [26]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
   character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips)
   due 27 Jul 2023

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

  Info Share

   addison: I saw JcK's email on the art list, I started writing a
   response

  Review RADAR Review

   <addison> [27]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

     [27] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

  Pending Issues Review

   <addison> [28]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
   issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending

  discuss pointerevent 505

   <addison> [29]pointerevents#505

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/505

   <gb> [30]Issue 505 ‘Logical’ values for the ‘touch-action’
   property (by aphillips) [i18n-needs-resolution] [future]

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/505

   [31]w3c/pointerevents#272

     [31] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/272

   <gb> [32]Issue 272 Add logical dimension values for
   touch-action property, since logical is/has shipped (by
   jonjohnjohnson) [future]

     [32] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/272

   [33]w3c/alreq#289

     [33] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/289

   <gb> [34]Issue 289 Should `touch-action` support logical
   directions like `pan-inline` / `pan-block`? (by xfq) [question]
   [i:bidi_text] [i:interaction] [l:arb] [l:pes] [l:ug] [l:ur]
   [l:ks] [l:ku]

     [34] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/289

   <addison> xfq: the pan-inline could be useful. you could use
   css rules or js to do this currently.

   <addison> ... they won't add in L3 and add in L4. already a PR
   for that to work on in L4.

   r12a: I read this alreq issues and people saying oh yeah it's
   necessary here's an example
   … but I couldn't see why you needed logical values for those
   examples

   addison: I think what r12a's trying to say is is there a moment
   when you would want the pan direction to be different than the
   different than the touch event direction

   addison: so the reason to use logical rather than physical
   would be to say I want to restrict scrolling to only be left or
   right or up or down without having to specify the specific
   direction you're locking it off from
   … you would use this property to say don't allow this page to
   scroll horizontally

   Bert: I think the use case is to @@1
   … to say that gesture should be passed on rather than ignored
   you use this property
   … the logical values mean you can scroll in the forward
   direction whatever that forward direction is

   addison: I would prefer if in the future CSS started from
   logical and add physical when physical has more meaning
   … in this case actions are almost always in a physical
   direction regardless of how the text is laid out
   … so I get the need for physical directions

   r12a: one possibility is if you're not touching the screen
   because you don't have hands or you are not able to get closer
   to the screen, you could issue a voice command that says pan
   forward and then you'd have to know where forward was?
   … my initial assumption would be that it has to use the
   direction of the document

   Bert: the whole thing of the property is you make a movement it
   cannot be used for scrolling but please don't ignore it and
   turn it into a pointer event and send it up to the parent
   element or whatever
   … script handler

   addison: it generates a pointer event that isn't consumed by
   the scrolling action and it's handed to you to do something
   with
   … this is a way to hook that
   … so that I can do something else
   … like if you get to the top of a page and you pull down

   Bert: I think it's okay to leave this to later if you add
   logical values later

   [35]w3c/pointerevents#496

     [35] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/496

   <gb> [36]Pull Request 496 Add logical/abstract values for
   `touch-action` (by patrickhlauke) [future]

     [36] https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/496

   Bert: I think that doesn't remove any of the current
   functionality

   [37]w3c/alreq#289 (comment)

     [37] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/289#issuecomment-2786402829

   <gb> [38]Issue 289 Should `touch-action` support logical
   directions like `pan-inline` / `pan-block`? (by xfq) [question]
   [i:bidi_text] [i:interaction] [l:arb] [l:pes] [l:ug] [l:ur]
   [l:ks] [l:ku]

     [38] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/289

   addison: xfq asked some bidi people, and at least a couple of
   them came back with yeah this is a real thing
   … there's a video of this ^

   r12a: what's different there actually I think is the transition
   direction

   addison: by having logical values you could just program at
   once
   … you just pan-inline-start and it pulls from that side of the
   screen
   … rather than having to have a set of pointer events for rtl
   and ltr layouts

   In addition, it was noted that authors would likely use the
   directional touch-action in combination with overflow. It
   appears that currently, logical values for overflow are only in
   draft in their respective spec, so the general feeling was that
   merging #496 into the future/next version (Level 4, or
   potentially "living standard") is not going to be

   a critical blocker right now for authors.

   <gb> Issue 496 not found

   addison: the reason that they're deferring to L4 is touch
   action is mainly used in combination with overflow and overflow
   is only kind of drafty
   … overflow doesn't have logical directions yet
   … they claim to want to do both in L4
   … we're requiring bidi people to rewrite things backwards

   xfq: and people using vertical text

   Bert: I don't mind postponing

   addison: let me propose that we propose permit them to go
   forward with L3
   … ask they work really hard on getting it in L4
   … does that sound like the right result?

   <r12a> "These four properties form a logical property group
   together with the overflow shorthand, and interact as defined
   in CSS Logical Properties 1 § 4 Flow-Relative Box Model
   Properties."

   <r12a> [39]https://drafts.csswg.org/
   css-overflow/#overflow-control

     [39] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-overflow/#overflow-control

   ACTION: addison: reply to pointerevents 505

   <gb> Created [40]action #166

     [40] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/166

   close #163

   <gb> Closed [41]issue #163

     [41] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/163

  specdev prs

   [42]https://
   deploy-preview-155--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#characters

     [42] https://deploy-preview-155--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#characters

   addison: I made changes

   [43]https://
   deploy-preview-155--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-encodi
   ng-terminology-illustrated

     [43] https://deploy-preview-155--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-encoding-terminology-illustrated

   addison: in reponse to last week's discussion
   … I have fixed the table under the first piece of mustard as
   discussed
   … with dotted lines and getting rid of the repeated use of the
   word character
   … and then I redid the I love Swiss cows example
   … any high-level comments on this?
   … is that example effective?
   … or should I just rip it out?

   r12a: seems okay to me

   addison: so my proposal here would be please review this if you
   have time in detail

   [44]https://
   deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_truncatio
   n

     [44] https://deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_truncation

   [45]https://
   deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-code-u
   nit-trunc-bad

     [45] https://deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#example-code-unit-trunc-bad

   addison: I incorporated an image indivisible and memorable
   … I think I've mostly addressed the comments

   r12a: looks all right now

   addison: is this good enough that we could let other people to
   see it and we can always come back and do more work on it?
   … or if there are specific things to fix then I'm happy to fix
   them

   addison: I think all of your comments were addressed
   … I left open ones where I did something different than your
   comment

   [46]https://
   deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_trunc_uni
   t_rec

     [46] https://deploy-preview-154--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#char_trunc_unit_rec

   r12a: that sounds okay to me

   xfq: looks good to me

   r12a: we can merge it

   <Bert> +1 to merging

   xfq: +1

   [47]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bray-unichars/

     [47] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bray-unichars/

Summary of action items

    1. [48]addison: reply to pointerevents 505

Received on Friday, 11 April 2025 03:06:29 UTC