[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2024-11-28

https://www.w3.org/2024/11/28-i18n-minutes.html





text version:
                              – DRAFT –
            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

28 November 2024

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [2] 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20241128T150000/
       [3] https://www.w3.org/2024/11/28-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, Richard

    Regrets
           -

    Chair
           -

    Scribe
           Bert

Contents

     1. [4]Agenda Review
     2. [5]Action Items
     3. [6]Info Share
     4. [7]RADAR Review
     5. [8]Pending Issue Review
     6. [9]vertical list article
     7. [10]I18N Glossary status
     8. [11]Language Negotiation article
     9. [12]AOB?

Meeting minutes

   Agenda Review

   Action Items

    <addison> #147

    <gb> [13]Action 147 Follow up on normativity warnings about
    glossary (on aphillips)

      [13] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/147

    <addison> #146

    <gb> [14]Action 146 create new calendar entry for I18N+CSS (on
    aphillips) due 2024-11-28

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/146

    <addison> #145

    <gb> [15]Action 145 publish timezone for wide review (on
    aphillips) due 2024-11-28

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/145

    addison: Published.

    <addison> #144

    <gb> [16]Action 144 remind everyone to read the language
    negotiation article (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/144

    <addison> #143

    <gb> [17]Action 143 make comments on the encoding issue
    attached to i18n-activity#1940 (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/143

    <addison> #142

    <gb> [18]Action 142 check if we can publish the new version of
    jlreq (on himorin) due 2024-11-21

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/142

    <addison> #141

    <gb> [19]Action 141 set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et
    al (on xfq) due 2024-11-14

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/141

    atsushi: Re #142, I found an issue.

    addison: I saw John Klensin said something, related to #141

    <addison> #127

    <gb> [20]Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest
    between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

      [20] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127

    addison: Will talk with Ben Allen Monday

    <addison> #125

    <gb> [21]Action 125 propose creating a UTR for text-emphasis
    skip if we can get help with maintain (on aphillips) due
    2024-09-30

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/125

    addison: Pending on CSS call

    <addison> #114

    <gb> [22]Action 114 read through i18n-activity#1659 and report
    on whether we're satisfied (on r12a) due 2024-08-22

      [22] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/114

    r12a: Not yet

    <addison> #90

    <gb> [23]Action 90 steal some of henri's text from
    scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due
    2024-04-18

      [23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/90

    <addison> #89

    <gb> [24]Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on
    xfq) due 2024-04-18

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89

    xfq: No progress

    <addison> #8

    <gb> [25]Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and
    formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

      [25] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8

    <addison> #7

    <gb> [26]Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting
    comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin,
    r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

      [26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7

    addison: One on device posture done

    <addison> #4

    <gb> [27]Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the
    character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips)
    due 27 Jul 2023

      [27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4

   Info Share

    xfq: What do you want to do with the timezone doc? Announce on
    Mastodon, Bluesky?

    addison: I'll send you draft text.

   RADAR Review

    <addison> [28]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

      [28] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

   Pending Issue Review

    <addison> [29]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/
    issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

      [29] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:pending

    <addison> #1948

    <gb> Issue 1948 not found

    <addison> [30]i18n-activity#1948

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1948

    <gb> [31]Issue 1948 Constency between `historyRedo` and
    `historyUndo` (by aphillips) [pending] [s:input-events]
    [non-I18N]

      [31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1948

    addison: Editorial

    <addison> [32]i18n-activity#1947

      [32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1947

    <gb> [33]Issue 1947 typos on `insertTranspose` (by aphillips)
    [pending] [s:input-events] [needs-resolution]

      [33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1947

    addison: It reads strangely. Editorial, but it is i18n.

    <addison> [34]i18n-activity#1946

      [34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1946

    <gb> [35]Issue 1946 "temporal" confusing in `kill buffer` (by
    aphillips) [pending] [s:input-events] [non-I18N]

      [35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1946

    addison: #1946 maybe not i18n-related

    <gb> Issue 1946 not found

   vertical list article

    <r12a> [36]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/
    qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

      [36] 
https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

    r12a: I made a few changes already.
    … The Japanese folks are concerned about two things:
    … The example at top left with a dot next to the number isn't
    properly centered, and it's not a common approach.
    … I might take out the dotted decimal option.
    … They pointed out they have a different way of formatting
    counters, with an opening parenthesis that's lying down, an
    upright number, and another horizontal paren.
    … Don't know how to do that, and what to do with longer lists?
    … It' s mixing directions within the marker.

    addison: Do they never use the dotted decimal?

    r12a: In horizontal text they do. Fuqiao and I have seen it in
    other languages in vertical, but Japanese may not use it.
    … I chose the dot to make it clear that the marker is
    horizontal text in a vertical list.

    atsushi: From japanese PoV, it is uncommon to combine numbers
    with affix, such as brackets.
    … Number would be in @@yoko.

    <atsushi> [37]https://www.toyobijutsu-prt.co.jp/com-design/
    dtp-63/

      [37] https://www.toyobijutsu-prt.co.jp/com-design/dtp-63/

    atsushi: This styling of combining dot and number into one
    character is uncommon, at least in vertical text.

    <atsushi> [38]http://www.otegarushuppan.com/wp-content/uploads/
    2014/07/tate1-2.gif

      [38] 
http://www.otegarushuppan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tate1-2.gif

    addison: So Richard will make some edits to the article?

    <r12a> [39]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/
    qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

      [39] 
https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

    r12a: If you have more examples with counters, send them to me!

    atsushi: Next Tuesday meeting could discuss it and find
    examples.

    r12a: text-combine-upright property has ana 'all' value, but
    als a 'digits' value. That might do what we need with the
    upright digits and horizontal parens.

    atsushi: The bracket is a single character and only the number
    is @@.

    r12a: Yes, and you can do that in normal text, but can you do
    it inside a marker?

    atsushi: Combining everything into a single character looks
    strange.

    addison: Will you look for examples?

   I18N Glossary status

    <addison> [40]Guide#269

      [40] https://github.com/w3c/Guide/issues/269

    <gb> [41]Issue 269 Make I18N Glossary definitions okay in
    normative blocks (by aphillips)

      [41] https://github.com/w3c/Guide/issues/269

    <addison> [42]w3c/i18n-actions#147

      [42] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/147

    <gb> [43]Action 147 Follow up on normativity warnings about
    glossary (on aphillips)

      [43] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/147

    addison: I talked with plh, see in the action ^^
    … I should file an issue on the guide.
    … And make the i18n glossary an exception to the normativity
    rules.
    … Nigel Megitt said the glossary could instead be normative.
    … We might update the glossary maybe twice a year.

    xfq: Our definitions are mostly descriptive.

    addison: We do send people to our glossary if they want to know
    how something works.
    … It's not specific enough for compliance testing.

    r12a: People will be better off copying the text into their
    spec, if they need a normative def, so that it doesn't change.

    addison: A draft that linked to our ‘grapheme cluster’ gets a
    ReSpec warning, because the term is not normatively defined.

    r12a: Grapheme cluster is an interesting case. If they used it
    a few years ago, their spec should continue with the defintion
    of that time.

    addison: Our definition doesn't define the grapheme cluster
    boundary.

    r12a: Maybe point to Unicode.

    addison: We want people to have the right term and not make up
    a new definition.

    xfq: Agree that people should be able to refer to informative
    definitions like ours.
    … For normative refs, they can refer to Infra or Unicode.

   Language Negotiation article

    <addison> [44]w3c/i18n-drafts#581

      [44] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581

    <gb> [45]Pull Request 581 Initial work on language-negotiation
    materials (by aphillips)

      [45] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581

    <addison> [46]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581/
    files?short_path=7aef4dd#diff-7aef4dd22d30f6ded58eb6eb22421d27f
    49dbe36c5fc03a27352050d52590dab

      [46] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/581/files?short_path=7aef4dd#diff-7aef4dd22d30f6ded58eb6eb22421d27f49dbe36c5fc03a27352050d52590dab

    xfq: I looked at the new pull request. Looks better.
    … It resolved my comments.

    addison: One more week, so you all can read it?

   AOB?

    <r12a> [47]https://w3c.social/@webi18n/113560294149211974

      [47] https://w3c.social/@webi18n/113560294149211974

    r12a: I checked for 'text-combine-upright: digits': not (yet)
    supported in browsers. But an interesting lead.
    … xfq noticed that Safari now supports Mongolian. That makes it
    work in all the browsers.

    <xfq> o/

    <r12a> [48]https://bsky.app/profile/webi18n.bsky.social

      [48] https://bsky.app/profile/webi18n.bsky.social

Received on Friday, 29 November 2024 00:33:05 UTC